Chapter 2

2021-2, This verse, not controversial at all when Paul wrote it, but the source of who knows how much dissent today:

2 and what you have heard from me in the presence of many witnesses entrust to faithful men, who will be able to teach others also. [2Ti 2:2 ESV].  Faithful men are to be entrusted.  Footnote in ESV says the word for men is "anthropoi", and that it can refer to both men and women.  I bet that's exactly right.  But in this case, does it?  Not if we are going to be consistent with what Paul said about women teachers.  Not if the analogies that follow are taken to heart.  Soldiers, athletes, farmers?  These were exclusively male roles in that day.  To say now that Paul "would have included women" but for the culture of the time again disregards the Biblical roles of men and women.  And while it is true that in many households today, the jobs of cooking and meal planning has been taken over by the man, I don't think it is common at all for the woman to be the primary bread-winner while the husband stays home with the children.  Just not so.  Both husband and wife now work outside the home, and that necessitates a modification of traditional household responsibilities.  A more equal division of the "chores" is only right in such a situation.  I won't get into whether or not it is a good idea for the woman to work outside the home except to say that the studies say they do so to the detriment of the children.  I know I've heard this more than once, I just wish I had access to the studies.  I wish there was a library where I could research such things.  But where would that be?  Certainly not at the OKC Metro Library.  That's not what they have.  Would need to be a college or university library.

2022 - Vs. 2 again:  So simple.  Paul is NOT giving Timothy instructions on how to run a church service, which is exactly what he was doing in 1 Timothy.  The Great Commission is indeed a general instruction to teach the gospel, and it is directed to all Christians.  Women ARE supposed to teach in this context - teach their friends, their neighbors and so on.  This vs two is referencing that general instruction, not the conduct of church business.

Paul gives several analogies as encouragement to Timothy to work hard for the gospel.  Soldiers, undistracted by civilian affairs unrelated to military service, athletes, who stick with the rules of competition if they expect to win the contest, diligent farmers who "ought to" get the first share of the crop.  Each of these is about some different aspect of service to God.  Stay focused, keep sound doctrine and don't cut corners, remember the reward for your efforts at the last day. 

2021-2, This verse:

7 Think over what I say, for the Lord will give you understanding in everything. [2Ti 2:7 ESV].  Does this not say that there is more here than a cursory reading will reveal?  Isn't this true of the whole Bible?  But Paul is telling Timothy that these analogies contain much instruction.  We ought to be careful with them also, and think deeply about them.

The quote in 11-13 seems to be Paul quoting himself in an earlier letter (Rom. 6:8, 1Th 5:10).  The theme of saved persons being "in Christ" is in 11, 12a.  vs 13 breaks the pattern.  It says that even if we are faithless, he is faithful?  I looked at both references, and neither contains this whole "saying".  Perhaps the saying had grown into an oft-repeated statement of faith among the churches of that time.  But still...why the change in the last section?

2021-2, Here are those verses and something that occurred to me this time through:

11 The saying is trustworthy, for: If we have died with him, we will also live with him;  - This is about the rapture.

12 if we endure, we will also reign with him; if we deny him, he also will deny us;  -If we endure t/gt we will be judged in the sheep and goat judgment.  The sheep will enter the Millennial Kingdom and rule, the goats will go into punishment.

13 if we are faithless, he remains faithful-- for he cannot deny himself. [2Ti 2:11-13 ESV]  - still this verse seems to break the pattern.  It does not fit the progression of 11,12 that I can see.  This almost sounds like Peter, denying three times, but restored by Jesus after the resurrection.  At the end, to whom would this apply?  What "group" is this?

MSB makes a point that those who deny Christ is about apostates - those who were seemingly in, but weren't really saved.  These, knowing the gospel, having great knowledge of the gospel - never really commit with a whole heart to believing it.  They maintain some reservations.  These deny Christ, and he knows they do, and will reciprocate at the end.

MSB says that last phrase - that breaks the pattern, just means that for those who are apostate - that is faithless - Jesus will be faithful to Himself, and dispense the justice of eternal fire.  As he is faithful to save those who believe, He must - and will - despise those who are not saved.

2022 - I wonder, this time, if vs 13 is about those who fail in the face of severe testing.  Like Peter did.  Peter believed, Peter was saved, and Peter denied three times because he was scared to death.  And Jesus made a point of restoring him after the resurrection.  Saved people do sometimes fail.  We ALL do.  And if we read it this way, then we can put it into the same context as 11, 12, in which it really ought to fit.  There will be those during tgt that rat out their relatives/friends/neighbors to save themselves, to feed their children, to survive the persecution.  Some will just be overcome by events, and put the cares of this world first.  We cannot condemn such because we have not been faced with such dire consequences ourselves.  But Jesus will remain faithful, even if we are desperately weak.  This is not about the lost.  To say that is to say that no real Christian ever buckles under the load, and that is NOT CORRECT.

Paul next urges Timothy to stick to the important points of doctrines and teachings, and not to get bogged down in things of little or no consequence.  This just gets people irritated at each other over things that don't really matter.  Timothy needs to steer clear of such things.  An example is given of two men who go about trying to prove the resurrection of Christians has already taken place.  Hmm...this would seem to be something worth refuting...Perhaps Paul's point is that it is obvious the resurrection of dead Christians has NOT happened, so Timothy should be dismissive about the whole thing, and not give them a platform to spread this theory that weakens the faith of some. 

2021-2, Wonder if those two guys are from Thessalonica?  Or maybe they're traveling around to churches everywhere and teaching this, likely in exchange for room and board and a bit more?  Hymenaeus is only mentioned in the two letters to Timothy, Philetus only in 2Tim.  So we don't know where they were from.  But Paul's letters to the Thessalonians sure make you think they'd at least spent some time there.

Vvs 20, 21 seem to say that in the church, there will be devoted believing Christians, and there will be pretenders.  However, if the pretenders will put away their apostasy, they too can be vessels of honor. 

Then again, either reiterating, or bringing up again because it is such a problem, we get this:

23 Have nothing to do with foolish, ignorant controversies; you know that they breed quarrels. [2Ti 2:23 ESV]

So the whole "already resurrected" thing is foolish and ignorant.  Anyone with any grounding would know that.  Perhaps Paul is telling Timothy to stay apart from these "foolish" controversies and devote himself instead to the more insidious ones.  Let others deal with the foolish ones.

24 And the Lord's servant must not be quarrelsome but kind to everyone, able to teach, patiently enduring evil, 25 correcting his opponents with gentleness. God may perhaps grant them repentance leading to a knowledge of the truth, 26 and they may come to their senses and escape from the snare of the devil, after being captured by him to do his will. [2Ti 2:24-26 ESV]

2020 - Paul says straight out that those who advance these foolish ideas are being used by Satan to undermine the church and its doctrine.  That would make them unsaved.  Those already saved need not be granted repentance anew.  They are still to be treated with gentleness and kindness in the hopes that they may see their error and come to a saving faith.  This is in contrast with the guy in Corinth who was to be put right out of the church.  What is the difference between the two cases?  (2021-2, The guy in Corinth had been "corrected" repeatedly and refused to stop teaching bad doctrine.  He'd had many chances.  This is the difference.  Correction starts mildly, and escalates until it is either effective or the "un-correctable" person is excommunicated.

2021 - I am more convinced than ever that these "opponents" are so characterized because they are squarely on the "other side".  These are not saved, yet are inside the church, perhaps teaching in the church, and advancing and promoting doctrine that is unsound.  The instructions to Timothy - who is not preaching unsound doctrine - is to contend with these, but to do so gently and kindly, hoping to open their minds and hearts so they might be saved.  I just really don't see leaving such people in positions of authority, so surely Paul is talking here about rank and file members who go down wrong paths because they are not truly saved.  They are used of Satan - because they belong to him - to introduce distracting and unsound ideas and doctrines and possibilities with the express goal of weakening the church, and of keeping souls from being taken from his domain and put into God's by their repentance.

2021-2, As the pastor at this church, Paul may be encouraging Timothy to be the "arbiter" of sound teaching.  The pastor has the responsibility of knowing what is being taught in his church, and of making sure it stays on the right track.  That might even be job 1. 

MSB not much help on this particular question.