Chapter 3
2025 - Lot's of new notes this year. I think they opened up a lot of understanding, not only about this book, but about cycles and prophecy in general through the OT. But I am WAY out of time, and will try to just read straight through this chapter.
Just reading straight through in 2020...spent way more time than intended in 1 and 2...but I think I have them now, and I also think the below is on target.
Another sort of a time stamp starts this chapter:
1 For, behold, in those days, and in that time, when I shall bring again the captivity of Judah and Jerusalem, [Joe 3:1 KJV]...
Hmm...This quote is from the KJV. Below is the same verse from TCR ESV:
1 "For behold, in those days and at that time, when I restore the fortunes of Judah and Jerusalem, [Joe 3:1 ESV]
These are pretty opposite. These are nothing alike. Surely, in context, this was referring back to the end of Chapter 2, where Israel was forgiven and restored...Not to some future captivity. If we go with the KJV, God judges the nations in the Valley of Jehoshaphat WHILE Israel is captive. Does not seem to fit. NKJV is like ESV.
2023 Note that the Valley of Jehoshaphat is just outside and to the SW of Jerusalem. Might be synonymous with the Kidron Valley.
Also, in NKJV, the first three verses of Chapter 3 are in verse, then 4-8 are regular format, then back to verse for the rest of the chapter. In ESV, 3:1-8 are regular, and then from 9 on to the end are in verse. Where do these formats come from!!!!?????
Much about slavery in these first 8 verses. God is angry with the Philistines, Tyre, and Sidon, for selling Jews into slavery in Greece, and sending them far away. God says this will come back on them, and they themselves will be sold as slaves to the Sabeans. It seems like an aside...or an insert.
2024 - Later. As I was reading Micah 4, I noticed the following:
"He shall judge between many peoples, and shall decide disputes for strong nations far away; and they shall beat their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruning hooks; nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall they learn war anymore;" [Mic 4:3 ESV]
This is the Millennial. Christ reigning on the earth, over all the earth. 1000 years of peace. No need for war, no war allowed is maybe a better phrase.
2024 - A little more context here:
4 He shall judge between the nations, and shall decide disputes for many peoples; and they shall beat their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruning hooks; nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall they learn war anymore. [Isa 2:4 ESV]. If we look at vss 2-4 here, it is quite certain that we are talking about the Millennial Reign. This is a time when there will be no war in Israel. They just won't have any need for weapons. I think we can be quite certain that this time is still in the future.
10 Beat your plowshares into swords, and your pruning hooks into spears; let the weak say, "I am a warrior." [Joe 3:10 ESV]. Also this: 14 Multitudes, multitudes, in the valley of decision! For the day of the LORD is near in the valley of decision. 15 The sun and the moon are darkened, and the stars withdraw their shining. [Joe 3:14-15 ESV]. Joel seems to be talking about an earlier time, as Israel arms itself for battle. We can almost see 1948 in this description. But I think it is about a still future time. We can tie vs 15 to Revelation 6. I think these signs accompany the rapture- shortly before or shortly after. So...In Joel the plowshares are turned to swords at the beginning of the last 3 1/2 years, and in Micah, the swords are turned BACK into plowshares in anticipation of a thousand years of peace. Copying this to Joel 3...
In Joel we see all the nations gathered together against Israel. They are focused in the Valley of Jehoshaphat.
https://alchetron.com/cdn/valley-of-josaphat-f107bdf6-f6eb-4fc7-a9d7-1aeaf1589cc-resize-750.jpeg
2024 - Still - Oh my...We know that there will be battles in the Plain of Megiddo, and we know there is this battle right here where Jerusalem is pretty much surrounded. We seem to see also that there will be a judgment immediately after this battle around Jerusalem. We see that there will be fighting. BUT, I think it is OTHER nations that will be making swords. So...when is this battle?
Is this verse relevant: 31 On that day, let the one who is on the housetop, with his goods in the house, not come down to take them away, and likewise let the one who is in the field not turn back. [Luk 17:31 ESV]?
Then this:
15 "So when you see the abomination of desolation spoken of by the prophet Daniel, standing in the holy place (let the reader understand), 16 then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains. 17 Let the one who is on the housetop not go down to take what is in his house, 18 and let the one who is in the field not turn back to take his cloak. [Mat 24:15-18 ESV].
Surely these two verses are about the very same time. And I think these two verses are about things that happen during the period between the recognition of the MoL by the church, and the time they are raptured out. Hmm....good!!! These verses have nothing to do with the Valley of Jehoshaphat. If I have these verses placed correctly, they are about the Church Age - pre-rapture. Therefore, Joel would not have "seen" them. Joel is talking about events AFTER all those signs in the heavens
Further, Joel is talking about a completely different time than Isaiah and Micah. But how much different...Could just be that once this battle is over - once the swords have been put to use - then they can immediately be converted back to farm implements. So do both this scene AND Megiddo occur simultaneously? Imagine an army outside Jerusalem, keeping the Jews inside, waiting to slaughter them when Satan arrives from his "victory" in Megiddo. But that is not how it goes. Satan falls at Megiddo and is locked up for a thousand years. King Jesus comes to Jerusalem and passes judgement on these outside the walls for all their deeds. Captives are taken and sold to the highest bidder - slavery of the lost during the Millennial is what we'd be talking about - those who helped the Jews...
No...I am mixing scenes together.
16 And they assembled them at the place that in Hebrew is called Armageddon. [Rev 16:16 ESV]. Armageddon is pre-Millennial. It is pre-7th bowl. Or at least things are leading up to it. So it works that both the Valley of Jehoshaphat and Armageddon are concurrent, and both pre-millennial, and both prior to the judgment seat of Christ on earth. At this point in the last 3 1/2, the planet will be pretty much devastated. There won't really be any "technology" left. War will be reduced to ancient technology - swords.
But...this, at the END of the Millennial:
7 And when the thousand years are ended, Satan will be released from his prison ... 9 And they marched up over the broad plain of the earth and surrounded the camp of the saints and the beloved city, but fire came down from heaven and consumed them, [Rev 20:7, 9 ESV]. Both the camp at Armageddon and Jerusalem are surrounded at this time. But. No weapons are needed. There are no bodies because the fire from heaven consumes them. There is no mention of Megiddo. Can't use Granville Sharp though. There are two definite articles here. The camp and the city are not one and the same.
I will save further work on this for another time. What I do believe I have learned is that the Pre-Milliennial battle is not confined to the plain of Megiddo, but there is also a contingent that surrounds Jerusalem.
YIKES - Reading this again on 2/14/24 in connection with Nahum 3:4, I seem to have read this COMPLETELY wrong. Vs 7 clearly says this is at the END of the Millennial, that BOTH the camp and the city are joined in battle. What it does not say is Armageddon. This requires a complete re-examination - and what I ought to do is just rewrite these notes as they ought to be rather than confuse things by leaving my initial misunderstanding here.
And one more important item. This verse:
15 The sun and the moon are darkened, and the stars withdraw their shining. [Joe 3:15 ESV]. If this is the pre-millennial battle at the end of the seventieth week, then these signs in the heavens are the SECOND manifestation of such. The first time as inside the Sixth Seal, and this is a second time. THAT means that we have these signs BOTH at the rapture of the church in the sixth seal when Jesus comes in the clouds, and AGAIN at the end of the Millennial when Jesus arrives on earth riding a white horse. THE SIGNS ACCOMPANY BOTH appearances if we put things together this way, and a lot of things that were previously confusing finally make sense. (So...these signs appear at the rapture, and at the end of the Millennium. At the end of the church age at the rapture when the Church Age dispensation ends, and then at the end of the 1000 years, when the promises to Israel are fulfilled. That makes a whole lot of sense also!
I have had two really good mornings in 2024!!!
And a third in 2/17 that forces a re-evaluation of the first two. As of today, Armageddon occurs before the Millennial begins. Jesus sits on his throne and judges the survivors of that battle. Jesus judges the living. AFTER the thousand years. Satan raises another army, and comes against two places. One is NE of the Holy City, in the VoJ. The other is the camp of the saints. That could be Armageddon, but might be elsewhere. Jesus ends this post millennial battle all by himself, no plowshares needed. After this, we have the GWT. The giant gaping hole in this is the selling of losers as slaves. How can that be resolved with end of the Millennial? That has to be pre-Millennial!
So on another good day, I will come back and puzzle this out.
Then, in verse format, there is a call to all the nations to make ready for war, and come to the Valley of Jehoshaphat where God will judge them. This verse:
13 Put in the sickle, for the harvest is ripe. Go in, tread, for the winepress is full. The vats overflow, for their evil is great. [Joe 3:13 ESV]
Very much like this:
15 And another angel came out of the temple, calling with a loud voice to him who sat on the cloud, "Put in your sickle, and reap, for the hour to reap has come, for the harvest of the earth is fully ripe." [Rev 14:15 ESV]
20 And the winepress was trodden outside the city, and blood flowed from the winepress, as high as a horse's bridle, for 1,600 stadia. [Rev 14:20 ESV]
In Revelation, this refers to the pre-Millennial battle. I think.
For a timestamp of this battle, these verses:
14 Multitudes, multitudes, in the valley of decision! For the day of the LORD is near in the valley of decision. 15 The sun and the moon are darkened, and the stars withdraw their shining. [Joe 3:14-15 ESV]
So much here that has connections to other parts of the Bible. This book is like a hinge that many other prophecies turn on...
2022 - East Texas notes:
About a judgment. All nations in the Valley of Jehoshaphat. Judgment on behalf of Israel. If S&G, these are living survivors of t/gt. (Now that I am home I think this is the bema seat judgment immediately after the rapture. But not sure, and have not yet studied it in detail.) "because they have scattered". So the ones in view are NOT the bad Jews. Both Jew and Gentile will be judged here. (Judged for rewards maybe? If for sin, this is not the rapture.) So I need to revise that. Is this gathering from all nations about everyone there, or just some, leaving unsaved Gentiles still out there? I still have a problem with all those multitudes at the last battle being born in the last 1000 years...and being ungrateful for the prosperity that gave rise to that. How? But if not, who is NOT gathered here in Joel? (Must add this all to the judgment study!) The end of Joel 2 has sun darkened and moon turned to blood. We know when that is. Yeah...but it looks like this judgment in Joel looks forward to the pre-Millennial judgment, after that great battle. A lot of people will be judged. Looking forward to that study!
Look at vss 14, 15! This is crucial to any study of Judgment, and I didn't even realize it was here! Signs in heaven again! Through vs 18 - Shows us this is S&G. Pre-Millennial. Does vs 21 tell us who is judged?
The end of this verse:vv
17 "...And Jerusalem shall be holy, and strangers shall never again pass through it. [Joe 3:17 ESV]
Ezekiel's Temple is forbidden to Gentiles, at least in part.
This:
18 "And in that day the mountains shall drip sweet wine, and the hills shall flow with milk, and all the stream beds of Judah shall flow with water; and a fountain shall come forth from the house of the LORD and water the Valley of Shittim. [Joe 3:18 ESV]
Israel will be restored to abundance, as in this verse again:
11 And I will multiply on you man and beast, and they shall multiply and be fruitful. And I will cause you to be inhabited as in your former times, and will do more good to you than ever before. Then you will know that I am the LORD. [Eze 36:11 ESV]
And this fountain from the house of the Lord?:
2 Then he brought me out by way of the north gate and led me around on the outside to the outer gate that faces toward the east; and behold, the water was trickling out on the south side. 3 Going on eastward with a measuring line in his hand, the man measured a thousand cubits, and then led me through the water, and it was ankle-deep. 4 Again he measured a thousand, and led me through the water, and it was knee-deep. Again he measured a thousand, and led me through the water, and it was waist-deep. 5 Again he measured a thousand, and it was a river that I could not pass through, for the water had risen. It was deep enough to swim in, a river that could not be passed through. [Eze 47:2-5 ESV]
This is the stream that will freshen the Dead Sea and make it productive!
I am having to change my mind once again...This reference is almost certainly to the Millennial, to the Golden Millennia of Israel. And that fountain from Ezekiel's Temple will water the Land of the Jews. That Temple, those sacrifices, those priests, MUST BE REAL. It is not a Temple offered but refused. It is a Temple that will exist. So...whether I like it or not, those sacrifices will be re-instituted. And I feel much better about all that anyway after the add'l notes from last night that were in the MSB. Not all the feasts, nor all the sacrifices, are re-instituted. And there is more to be learned by what is missing than by what is still there.
Back to the timelines. The original, proposed, covenant relationship between God and Israel WILL COME TO PASS in the Millennial. Sacrifices and all. That MUST happen, because God's word never returns empty. He said He would be their God, and they would be His people, and that is going to happen.
And now I know why my Chronological Bible puts Joel after Ezekiel. They are hand and glove almost, and reach out also to Revelation.
2024 - This verse:
21 I will avenge their blood, blood I have not avenged, for the LORD dwells in Zion." [Joe 3:21 ESV]. How can we not wonder, with a verse like this, why Germany is not really mentioned in the Bible? Either they have already suffered God's vengeance for what they did to the Jews, or vengeance is still to come. I haven't read all this, but found a link. Implies that perhaps Germany is one of the ten horns at the end. I suppose that is possible. This article throws in a Bible verse now and then, but it does not seem like the Bible is a "primary" source for the article. So beware.
What better way to close this book than with these words:
21 ...for the LORD dwells in Zion." [Joe 3:21 ESV]