Chapter 17
In this chapter, we start with "And he said to his disciples..." Last chapter started the same way. So all these parables are to help Jesus' disciples see and understand the "rampant corruption" of the Pharisees. But it is in parables, so again, only those whom God had chosen to carry through rather than send to hell, can understand.
Don't cause others to sin. A millstone and a drowning are better for you than tempting away little ones.
2022 - We just finished the Dishonest Manager, and the Rich Man and Lazarus. The future of the Pharisees - or more generally of the religious elite and the strategy they will adopt to remain elite, and then we see that for those focused only on this world and its pleasures, even one rising from the dead will be insufficient to get their attention. It is not only Pharisees who have this problem.
2021 - These verses: 1 And he said to his disciples, "Temptations to sin are sure to come, but woe to the one through whom they come! 2 It would be better for him if a millstone were hung around his neck and he were cast into the sea than that he should cause one of these little ones to sin. [Luk 17:1-2 ESV] Is this about liquor store owners? Maybe not all of them, but certainly about those who sell to minors on the sly. Is it about marijuana dispensaries? I'd say about 99% of it is. There aren't that many legitimate medical uses for marijuana, but they'll sell it to you for just about anything. Is it about Palestinian, Iranian, and Syrian parents raising their kids with songs of hatred toward all Israel. Most certainly. 100%. Woe to them. Now this might be in interesting FB post. Later. No, I don't think this is about liquor stores and marijuana dispensaries. I think this is about more subtle goings on.
2022 - Is this a warning against false teaching? vss 1-4 say be careful of sine, because it will still be sin even if you are taught falsely. And it will be worse for those who lead you astray - into heresy, into trusting in men instead of God, or trusting in your own works instead of the sovereignty of God. But it will also be bad for you because you listened. It could be this, coming as it does after the dishonest manager, which I now see as a preemption of where the Pharisees are going to go. Vs 3 says "Pay attention to yourselves..." so where sin is concerned, it is not just the one through whom temptation came that is at fault. Perhaps vss 3 and 4 are about not needing Pharisees to tell you when you're wrong. Police each other, you do not need an overseeing elitist sect of super preachers to follow.
2024 - This one: Luke 17:4 NASB1995
[4] And if he sins against you seven times a day, and returns to you seven times, saying, ‘I repent,’ forgive him. It seems to me today that forgiveness is in some ways conditional. Common sense is involved. Seven times? Only if the offender is truly repentant. God does not forgive based on lip service alone, but on the heart. If God does it that way, then we can do it that way. Note that assessing sincerity has another name. Judgement. We must judge. We are not ordered to let others take advantage of us.
9 Does he thank the servant because he did what was commanded? 10 So you also, when you have done all that you were commanded, say, 'We are unworthy servants; we have only done what was our duty.'" [Luk 17:9-10 ESV]
Unworthy servants? I don't know why unworthy is in there. This is about the servant who finishes plowing, and yet is expected to prepare dinner for his master when he gets done, and only after the master has eaten can this servant who already worked all day eat. This is how it is. No one would expect the servant to be treated as if he has earned the right to eat first. He is a servant. He has a place. Social Justice does not enter into it. Likewise, our work - even good work for the kingdom - earns no special favor from God. As His servants, we do what our position requires of us. Good one for FB I think.
2025 - I think the next verse makes this clear:
10 So you also, when you have done all that you were commanded, say, 'We are unworthy servants; we have only done what was our duty.'" [Luk 17:10 ESV]. Our best kingdom work, done when we are beyond exhaustion and starving for something to eat, does not earn us even a pat on the back. It is just our job. It is de minimis. It is what is due our master, who owns us.
This truth ought to destroy our pride in our own good works. This discredits the idea that "I'm not a bad person so I ought to get into heaven". We not only think we can earn our way in, but we set our own bar on the lowest rung. "I'm not bad" means there are worse people than me. If that is the criteria it means that only one person - the absolute worst person who ever walks - will not get in. Because everyone was better than him. On that basis, only one person would ever be in hell, all others in heaven.
We have no concept of true obligation. If a person buys our lunch we think we deserved it rather than thinking we owe that person something. At most, we will consider it our "turn", not our obligation, to buy that person lunch.
How then are we truly going to get our minds around what we owe Jesus for dying an awful, torturous, mind numbing death in our stead? How can we grasp what we owe God for consenting to the death of his Son so that we his slaves could live forever?
Slavery - or rather being a good slave - can teach us a lot about how to be better Christians. Our absolute best is "...only what we ought to have done."
2025 - Another concept that Satan has twisted so badly that it makes slavery an abhorrent thing to us, something we never examine much less aspire to be good at!
There is a break in vs 11. We change from a recounting of parables - which I see now have a common theme - back to a historical narrative of Jesus' journey to Jerusalem. We have the cleansing of 10 lepers. This: 17 Then Jesus answered, "Were not ten cleansed? Where are the nine? 18 Was no one found to return and give praise to God except this foreigner?" [Luk 17:17-18 ESV] God blesses the evil and the good. Being blessed by God, a seeming answered prayer, does not mean that God has decided you are worthy of heaven. He blesses all, at times, because he is a merciful God. Only this one leper who understood where the blessing came from, and that he didn't really deserve the blessing, and was so thankful for it that he came and fell at the feet of the source of that blessing, who gets into heaven. Note that Jesus says his faith made him well. This one had faith.
These vss:
20 Being asked by the Pharisees when the kingdom of God would come, he answered them, "The kingdom of God is not coming in ways that can be observed, 21 nor will they say, 'Look, here it is!' or 'There!' for behold, the kingdom of God is in the midst of you." [Luk 17:20-21 ESV]
I think this is about the age of the Gentiles, the age of the church. The church is neither geographic nor tangible. It has no capital city. It is a spiritual thing, made up of believers all over the world. This is the Kingdom of God.
2021 - Not observable. A spiritual kingdom. This is where the whole thing about the kingdom of God being present now comes from. Jesus says "It's not coming....", so it is still in the future when Jesus speaks of it here. But then he says it "...is in the midst of you." which seems to be present tense. Interlinear says that both verbs are the same in Greek. They are not the same word, but both are 3rd person singular present active indicative verbs. They are the same tense in Greek, though one is future and the other present as translated. Reading the definitions, they both denote statements of fact, but not necessarily when the "fact" happened. Just that it is real. There is a kingdom of God. But from these verses, we cannot read too awfully much into when it is coming. As in we cannot say from these verses that the Kingdom of God was not already there when Jesus spoke these words.
2022 - In vs 20, the question is asked by the Pharisees. In vs 22 Jesus seems to be talking only to his disciples. It is like he answers the Pharisees one way, because their questions are not seeking knowledge and understanding, but an attempt at entrapment. But after his disciples hear his answer to the Pharisees, he tells his own what they need to know on the subject. There is a contrast in Jesus' answers, depending on the motives of the questioners.
2022 - So to the Pharisees, he says you won't even know it is here. Because it is already here and you don't see it. It is a spiritual kingdom that will be in place until the age of the Gentiles is fulfilled. The saved, the chosen, the elect, those "in Christ" already see it and know that it is here. After the coming of the Holy Spirit - only to those who believe in Christ, not to those who deem themselves perfect under the Law - the Kingdom will grow and spread all over the world. You you Pharisees, you will be blind to its appearance.
The kingdom will come unexpectedly - that is, the day of the Son of Man will be unexpected. There won't be a progression of historic events pointing like a finger at the day of the Son of Man. For the most part, it will be a complete shock and surprise. The world will be completely unconcerned as to whether the end is near. Just as they were unconcerned in Noah's day, just as the residents of Sodom took no notice of Lot's departure. (2021 - Hmm, like the rapture isn't it?)
2021 - vss 22-25, Seems to start off saying that in the future, there will be false Christs, and many will follow them. But the disciples are not to believe it, because when Christ appears again, it will be unmistakable. You won't need anyone to tell you Christ has reappeared. "...in his day..." seems to be referring to one event, and I think that event is the reappearance of Christ as Conquering King. I don't think we are talking about 70 AD here, nor about the rapture. Vs 25 says he will be rejected by this generation, and we know it was "this generation" that would not die until not one stone was left on another.
2022 - Then to his disciples...Vss 22-24, the time is coming when you will want me back. You will seek my physical presence. And because of that yearning, fakes will arise and claim to be me. But they are fake, and you will know because when I come back it will be obvious that it is me. There will be no doubt anywhere. This is about the second coming. This is about the Kingdom of Christ on the earth. This is about the Millennial Reign, and Jesus victorious return to set that up. So...a contrast between the Spiritual Kingdom of God - and why wouldn't it be spiritual. God is spirit and must be worshiped in spirit and truth. But the Millennial Kingdom is Christ as King on earth, and about the Abrahamic covenants, and so is a physical Kingdom. So...there is a Kingdom of God now, and there will be a Kingdom of Christ - of the Son of Man - in the future.
2022 - vs 25, "But first...". Jesus tells them that his kingdom won't be in their lifetimes. In their lifetimes he is going to suffer.
2021 - vs 26, As in the days of Noah. Who all uses this phrase in the NT? It is used here and in Matthew 24. So we can tie at least some of Luke 17 directly to Matthew 24. In Matthew 24, the days of Noah phrase follows "no one knows the day or the hour". I don't think this can possibly apply to 70 AD. I think in Matthew, and by extension here in Luke 17, we are talking about the establishment of the earthly kingdom of Christ, when he returns as conquering king. A physical factual event.
2022 - Vss 26-30 are about what it will be like when the Son of Man returns. It will be on "a day". An appointed and specific day. As the rain started on the day Noah entered the ark, as the fire came down on Sodom the very day - within hours - of Lot's departure, that is how Jesus will reappear. And it has been 2000 years, and we just go on with a very low expectation of his appearance. Even in those end times it is clear that Jesus' physical return will be unexpected.
2021 - vs 31, if you're on the housetop, don't come down. NOT about the rapture, but about Christ with his armies taking over. This is not about 70 AD either. This is about the end of the world. Vs 32 I think confirms it. Remember Lot's wife. As the final destruction of Sodom takes place, instead of hurrying away and leaving that place behind, she looked back - perhaps turned back and walked into the zone of destruction, and so was destroyed with Sodom. When Christ comes to destroy the Kingdom of Satan established through Antichrist, you do not want to be anywhere near there. When you see them assembling, flee! Get away from the battle zone. But this is about tribulation's end and establishment of the Millennial kingdom.
2022 - Think about this...if this was about the rapture, why would it say not to come down from the housetop? Why not? When the rapture comes, our departure is imminent and unstoppable. It will be in the twinkle of an eye. 51 Behold! I tell you a mystery. We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, 52 in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised imperishable, and we shall be changed. [1Co 15:51-52 ESV]. There won't be any decision making involved at the rapture. We won't decide where to go and stand until our turn comes. This will be instantaneous. So in this passage, this stuff about the housetops and the fields is NOT about the rapture at all. NOT AT ALL!!! Look at this confirming verse: 33 Whoever seeks to preserve his life will lose it, but whoever loses his life will keep it. [Luk 17:33 ESV]. How can this be about the rapture? It will be far too late to do any preserving and losing at the rapture.
2021 - But how do the two in one bed, and the two grinding enter into it? They will react differently to events? One is about night, the other about day. This is about an interval of time, not about an instant. Some will recognize it, some will not. Those who do not will end up casualties of war. I think we usually see this backwards, as if the one taken is the better off. There is certainly more to the word "taken" than we usually notice. It is the Greek "paralambano". Obviously a compound word. Left is translated "leave" more than it is translated left. What if we read it "one will be captured, the other will leave". That would make this about separation by personal choice, not by rapture. Wow. This needs to go in with the Matthew 24 notes, because there are so many ties between them, and so much more information on which to discern the time we are talking about.
2022 - This is about the battle. When the Son of Man reappears, there will be war. Sides will be chosen. Enemies will be captured. As the battle lines are drawn, as you see the forces of the Antichrist begin to mobilize, do not go near them. If they think you are on the Lord's side, if you do not have the mark, they will take you away lest you fight against them. Get out of camp, as Noah got in the ark and left everything behind, as Lot ran away from Sodom, leaving all he'd ever known, when the Son of Man appears, you need to get out of the condemned area. It is unlikely that we are talking about the current city of Jerusalem, but about the city Antichrist will build, or about the place he will choose as his capital city. It is about a place, because that is what we see in vs 37: Where the corpse is... So at the battleground. Do not be there. Get out of there.
In the case of Noah, and of Lot, there was ample opportunity to prepare for the destruction about to take place. Noah did prepare. So did Lot. Both removed themselves from disaster. Noah had time to prepare, and provisioned for the animals. Lot had almost no time, and grabbed what he could and got out. But when the day of the Son of Man comes, there won't be any time to prepare. We have already been warned that it is coming, and that it could be any second. Those who recognize it when it comes will just be gone. And those left will be out of options.
NO! Wait a sec. This (Lk 17:31-37) is not about the rapture. This is about Jesus coming as Conquering King and defeating the armies of Anti-Christ. That is going to be a monstrous battle here on earth. Jesus is saying that if you are in the "war zone" when this battle begins, you better not look back. Don't be in enemy territory when hostilities commence. Get out! There will be two in bed - which means night time, and two grinding - which means day time. The rapture will be instantaneous. All over every where in a millisecond. THIS IS NOT ABOUT THE RAPTURE! If we believe that the church is raptured out at the beginning, and that this battle is not until the end of Great Trib, then this warning is to those left, who have been saved SINCE the rapture. They need to get out before Christ appears. They need to separate themselves and so live into the beginning of the Millennial reign. That is why vs 37 is about vultures and corpses. It reads like this:
37 And they said to him, "Where, Lord?" He said to them, "Where the corpse is, there the vultures will gather." [Luk 17:37 ESV]
The "where" refers to where this battle will take place, and though not specific, the picture is of widespread death and destruction.
(2021 - Not so sure the listeners recognized this as a coming battle. Perhaps they are asking where Christ will appear. And his answer says, the place I appear as conquering king will be littered with the bodies of the followers of The Beast. You'll know where I appear, after the fact at least, because there will be many dead there. Hmm...Sure seems to make good sense.)
If this is so in this place, then surely Matthew 24 is describing this same scene. I need to look at that again...
2020 - I had forgotten about this. Reading it again this year, I think even more that this is on target. The establishment of the earthly kingdom of Christ is what is in view. That will be the battle at the end of Great Tribulation. This battle is going to come together very suddenly, but obviously. People will see the armies beginning to gather. Get out of the war zone at that time. This message is to the Jews who will have come home during Trib and Great Trib. To those in whom the promises to Abraham will come to pass. They need to get out of the way, because it is all going to happen very quickly once it starts. I still want to compare this in Luke to the similar wording in Matthew 24. This should put some brackets around what Jesus says there, as to the time he is talking about, and as to the question he is answering when he says this. ...the next day...I notice that my Harmony does not put Luke 17 together with Matthew 24 at all. It seems Jesus said these things - these very same things - on two occasions.
2025 - There are a few things right in the notes above, but a lot of it is wrong. All through this passage, people are making decisions. To follow those claiming to be Christ returned or not to follow them. To go along with what is happening in order to preserve a safe, secure, "normal" way of life. To go on with our plans in the face of mounting evidence that the world is about to end, or just to shuck all our worldly encumbrances and look to the east. This is not about "the arrival" of Jesus at the end, it is about the time leading up to the end. It is not about the instant of the rapture, but about the run up to the rapture. This is about the part of the last seven years during which things will increasingly fall to pieces - the Seven Seals time as I have it described in my notes on Rev 6 - and some professing Christians will recognize it and walk away from their "nests" and get ready, but others, those who prefer the earthly and the material above the heavenly, will refuse to see it, will stubbornly stay where they are.
So the first warning is not to be deceived by false Christs. The real appearance will leave no doubt. Do not go based on rumors, claims, or crowds. Stay focused. Noah told them what was coming. He was ignored...and when it began to rain it was too late. Noah gave up his expectation of a "normal" future in light of what God told him to do. Then Lot. Things were bad in Sodom, beyond bad. There were NO good people there. Yet Lot's wife clung to what she knew and just couldn't leave the world behind for a safer place. Not going back for the goods, not running by the house before heading for the hills...these are about not grasping for the old ways, the normal, the comfortable. In the day that Jesus is talking about, trying to hang on to the world will get you left behind - drowned or burned up in fire in brimstone.
This is about the truly saved and the mindset the truly saved will have in those horrible times contrasted with those who claim salvation, but are not saved and so are put into the same category as the lost in these scenes. Jesus is talking to his disciples, and he is warning them that even in this tight group, separated from the world at large and following Jesus personally, even among these there are disciples who are completely and totally lost. These will be left when the truly saved are taken. These things ought to put us on our knees and in our Bibles reading about assurance. These ought to provoke us to self-examination of the harshest most demanding intensity! You cannot be wrong here, or hell is the result.
2025 - That one last line? Why did they ask him where instead of when? Perhaps the battle lines will be drawn, and when we abandon the world we have to go somewhere and join up. Don't go back and get your gun, go to where the lines are forming up. The vultures will know that there are going to be bodies by the millions. Where the vultures are gathering is where you ought to go. Go there...join up...wait there. The Conquering King will join you there.
But...if it means this, it's not about waiting for the rapture, it's about post-rapture and second coming. It can't be about both...It cannot be the Seals and leaving home and family behind and going to...where? Hmm. We don't know where we are to go instead of down to the house or in from the field. But if it is to Megiddo, then this is about the epiphany, not the rapture. Which means it is addressed to those NOT raptured, but saved after the rapture and before the second.
It was all making good sense until that last verse. I still don't quite have it. Very disappointing.