Chapter 25
This chapter starts a new section - proverbs of Solomon that were "discovered" and compiled when Hezekiah was King of Israel, 200 years after Solomon. MSB says there are 137 such proverbs.
25 is divided, by someone I know not - perhaps Hezekiah's scholars - into stanzas. We shall see whether the stanzas each have a common theme.
1st stanza, the word "king" plays in each proverb. Some are single verse contrasts, some are two verses long. Some are about how a king should rule, some about how to behave in the presence of a king. There is this verse to start it all off:
2 It is the glory of God to conceal things, but the glory of kings is to search things out. [Pro 25:2 ESV]
A clear contrast between how God rules and how men rule. Or...what God considers worthy of glory, and what men do. God delights in bringing about His will in ways undiscoverable to mere men. Men get glory from their machinations being made known to all. Maybe that's what this means, maybe not.
2021 - This verse:
2 It is the glory of God to conceal things, but the glory of kings is to search things out. [Pro 25:2 ESV]
Here, perhaps, is the reason that there are things we just cannot understand. This implies, surely, that there are things we will never unravel. Again, the things we cannot know are the things God has put here so we know He exists. What happened before the big bang? What is Hubble's Constant, really? These unanswerable - or least these things that are restricted to untestable theories - glorify God by demonstrating his transcendence of human knowledge.
Possible FB post following up on the post of 10/21/21. Would need to put it up pretty soon.
4 Take away the dross from the silver, and the smith has material for a vessel; [Pro 25:4 ESV]
The implications here, in light of some of the Jordan Peterson things I've been reading! Clean up your room before you start to clean up the planet. Get the log out of your own eye before you start improving your neighbor. Peel back the distractions in your life that are unproductive before you tackle the book you've always wanted to write.
I think a good post could be made of this, but it will need more work! Hmm, just now I noted that once things are cleaned up, the vessel is made by someone else. Be careful with this one....Perhaps it is just the setup to 5, and not meant to stand alone.
2nd, A three verse proverb about maintaining harmony with your neighbor.
3rd, Four verses about communication. About words "fitly spoken", with good intention, for the benefit of the hearer.
4th, Covers many subjects. They are about relationships for the most part. The proverb about loving your enemy is in this 4th one.
2021, This verse, which should be a FB post if it hasn't been one already:
26 Like a muddied spring or a polluted fountain is a righteous man who gives way before the wicked. [Pro 25:26 ESV]
There are also two proverbs about honey. The first says don't eat too much of it, the second says too much honey is not good. The first is to avoid vomiting, the second is an analogy, but the meaning of the Hebrew is uncertain about the second part of the verse. They really don't know the point of this second one. The two are pretty far apart in the stanza. The ESV says this:
27 It is not good to eat much honey, nor is it glorious to seek one's own glory. [Pro 25:27 ESV]
KJV ends with "...so for men to search their own glory is not glory."
NKJV says "...to seek one's own glory is not glory."
RSV ends with "...so be sparing of complimentary words."
NASB "...Nor is it glory to search out one's own glory."
This is probably not a life-changing proverb, but I find the "untranslatable" to be interesting.
After looking at these possibilities, the jist seems to be that as too much honey makes a good thing a bad thing, too much seeking after your own glory is a bad thing. Neither is bad in and of itself, it is in the excess of either that there is harm.
You know, this could also be about narcissism. Or about truly self-admirers. Having a good self image is ok, even necessary, and a little indulgence is called for. BUT, to continue, to be self-consumed with how awesome you are...that's a different thing. Maybe 26:12 is related?
It also occurs to me that these untranslatable proverbs may be that way on purpose. This one for instance, since we cannot be sure of the original meaning, makes us look deeper and in this case many truths are found, instead of just one.
These verses need some thought also:
21 If your enemy is hungry, give him bread to eat, and if he is thirsty, give him water to drink, 22 for you will heap burning coals on his head, and the LORD will reward you. [Pro 25:21-22 ESV]
Looking at the last part of the verse kind of separates this thought from the whole "love your enemies" of the NT, as found here:
44 But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you; [Mat 5:44 KJV]
The Proverb is about war, about large scale relationships. Jesus is speaking to individuals. The point of what Jesus said is not to ultimately cause pain to your enemies. It is not that at all. But that was the point of Solomon's proverb. Makes me think of the way the Jews and Arabs propagandize things. If Israel retaliates for attacks, the Arabs say the Jews are killing their children. They portray themselves as just folks, and the Israeli's as aggressors. The US sends food aid to countries that hate us following natural disasters. This makes those enemies look mean and spiteful and unjustified in hating us. This proverb may well be about using propaganda to your advantage. I don't believe it is all about letting a violent looter into your house and offering him a cold drink because his looting and burning has him overheated. No....I don't think it means this at all.
And one last point. Jesus does not include those who break in and threaten violence against your family. He says those that curse you - that's words not physical violence, those that hate you - an attitude not an action, despitefully use you - put you in harms way to save themselves maybe, cheat and rob you "legally" with no regard. But this is not a physical thing. Persecution. Hounding, cheating you, slandering you, demeaning you. But still, I do not believe that physical violence is implied.
Of course, I don't want it to be implied. I want "permission" to defend myself and my family from violent people who want to physically hurt or kill. I'll give them my money clip, but I won't give them my daughter. And I want that attitude to be ok. I want permission to kill to protect my own. That sounds harsh, but that is what I want this to say. I hope I have treated it fairly and correctly in this discussion.
2021 - Per MSB, burning coals were heaped on top of metals to soften them so they could be worked. Think of heating a horseshoe red hot so that it can be shaped and sized. The idea then is that kindness to enemies "softens" their disposition toward us, makes them less antagonistic toward us, cracks the door open for us to bring them around to our side of the battle. Is this saying the same thing as Jesus says in Mat 5:44 above? MSB points out that Paul quotes this Proverb in Rom. 12:20. It is pretty clear that Paul is using the verse the same way the Proverb means it. Jesus does not add the last part of the verse, the burning coals part. Perhaps we should imply it because so much of what he says is parallel to the Proverb. Here is the whole passage from Matthew, part of the Sermon on the Mount:
43 "You have heard that it was said, 'You shall love your neighbor and hate your enemy.'
44 But I say to you, Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you,
45 so that you may be sons of your Father who is in heaven. For he makes his sun rise on the evil and on the good, and sends rain on the just and on the unjust.
46 For if you love those who love you, what reward do you have? Do not even the tax collectors do the same?
47 And if you greet only your brothers, what more are you doing than others? Do not even the Gentiles do the same?
48 You therefore must be perfect, as your heavenly Father is perfect. [Mat 5:43-48 ESV]
Jesus is contrasting his teaching with the teaching of the Pharisees (or some other false adage, as quoted). Love your neighbor, hate your enemy is incorrect. We should love all men, treat all men the same, pray for all - even those who would hurt us, because God sends rain to all men, not just the good. We are to love our enemies because they too are God's creation. There is no further objective involving coals. This doesn't imply that we are to open the gates to our enemies. But are to pray for them.
The Sermon on the Mount seems to be about the attitude we ought to have towards others. An eye for an eye is contrasted with turn the other cheek. Hate your enemy is contrasted with pray for all men. Jesus is not precluding either self- or national defense. He is not saying to unlock your doors at night and welcome thieves, robbers, and rapist inside, and offer them a cup a tea when they're done. Not even a little bit is he saying that. But if you are robbed, pray for the robber, don't seek him out to kill him for what he has done. If someone slaps us in anger, we are not to reply with anger, with tit for tat. But if someone seeks to kill us for our wallet, this does NOT say let them kill us. It might well say give them the wallet, but it doesn't say let them beat you half to death. A slap is not "great bodily harm". Wow. I think I finally understand these things.
2024 - Two of these proverbs are about not eating too much honey:
16 If you have found honey, eat only enough for you, lest you have your fill of it and vomit it. ...
27 It is not good to eat much honey, nor is it glorious to seek one's own glory. [Pro 25:16, 27 ESV]
I find it hard to believe that these verses are just about not eating too much honey. I expect - thought I don't know firsthand - that too much of anything will come back up. I see in 27 the comparison between indulging in something that tastes good and indulging in self aggrandizement, in not just tooting your own horn but hiring an orchestra to do it. Neither of these accomplishes what we think. Perhaps 16 is only here to set up 27 - if you're wise enough to remember 16 by the time you get to 27. Perhaps 16 is about honey, alcohol, wealth, work, exercise, and hobbies. Do any of these to excess, and you ruin them forever. After throwing up honey, you'll never want honey again. In the same way, devotion to anything, even to very good things, to the exclusion of all else, to the taking over of all else, is going to end up "spoiling" the things you greatly enjoy - your favorite things. Yes. That's what these two are about. Finally!