Revelation Chapter 4
We move from "what is" to "what will be". We see this in 4:1. John is at once "in the Spirit". I think this means he was in profound union with Jesus, and his vision is directly revealed. Same phrase was used in 1:10. MSB describes it like this: "This was not a dream. John was supernaturally transported out of the material world awake - not sleeping - to an experience beyond the normal senses. The Holy Spirit empowered his senses to perceive revelation from God."
In this chapter, John will describe the throne of God as he sees it IN HEAVEN. He does this because much of what will occur in the rest of the book of Revelation will be observed by John as he stands in this place. Because of John’s location IN HEAVEN, and because he is IN THE SPIRIT, John will be able to see supernatural actors in the events to come. In his description of the throne, John “sees” Theos sitting on the throne and describes him. John “sees” the four creatures, and he “sees” the 24 elders. In coming chapters he will be able to “see” the Lamb opening the seals, angels blowing trumpets, and angels pouring out the contents of bowls. All these things are the means God employs to bring about the end of the world. These “actions” by supernatural characters that no one on earth can see will have observable effects on the natural, physical world in which men live. Even so, we need to keep in mind that the events are yet future – a preview of the events as they will play out when the end times actually arrive. For instance, in Rev 16:2 an angel pours something out of a bowl. Right after that, on earth, people break out in sores. The people on earth did not see that an angel did something that caused the sores, they just know they now have sores all over them. So we must keep in mind that supernatural actors doing supernatural things RESULT in natural, physical consequences on the earth. This is how God has chosen to unfold the last days, and what John sees is a preview of how that will all unfold – as observed from the vicinity of God’s throne in heaven. We will see that the point of view from which various things are described is of vital importance.
Here is how the chapter starts:
2023 – This verse:
1 After this I looked, and behold, a door standing open in heaven! And the first voice, which I had heard speaking to me like a trumpet, said, "Come up here, and I will show you what must take place after this." [Rev 4:1 ESV]. Several items to note: First, the word translated door is thyra. In the KJV it is always translated either door or gate. No mystery about what this word means.
Second, the door is open “in” heaven. The word translated “in” is the Greek “en” and is used 2800 times in the KJV. Over 1900 times it is translated “in”. Even so, is it “in” as to the place it is located – for instance a door in the city, or a door in Israel, etc, or is it “in” as in what it goes through, as in a door in the wall, or a door in the room. I note that in the Greek, the phrase used is “ho ouranos”. “ho” is the definite article, so it actually reads “a door in the heaven”. I think it is best understood to mean that John could see that heaven existed on the other side of the sky. He could see things through this door that are normally invisible from the earth. There was a door in heaven.
Third, the word translated “heaven” is a form of ouranos. This word is translated heaven 268 of the 284 times it appears in the KJV. Here is the BLB outline of Biblical usage:
1. the vaulted expanse of the sky with all things visible in it
1. the universe, the world
2. the aerial heavens or sky, the region where the clouds and the tempests gather, and where thunder and lightning are produced
3. the sidereal or starry heavens
2. the region above the sidereal heavens, the seat of order of things eternal and consummately perfect where God dwells and other heavenly beings
I think this confirms that the door allowed John to see “beyond the physical sky” into God’s heaven beyond.
Then it gets really interesting. “Come up here”, “I will show you what is coming”. So John is going to move from his vantage on earth, looking up through that door into heaven, into heaven itself. What he describes while there is seen from a heavenly point of view. He will be seeing events as they are observable from heaven, with heaven’s eyes so to speak. He will be seeing the agents of heaven going to do things, rather than seeing from the human perspective the things that result on earth from the actions of invisible angels. The next phrase tells us that John is being shown things that will take place in the future. Things “after this”.
NOTE ALSO that these words at the end of 4:1 are in red. Someone, somewhere, believes the one speaking is in fact either Theos or Christ. Why? Perhaps this: 2022 - The voice John hears in 4:1 sounds like a trumpet. That is how the voice in 1:9 is described, and later in Chapter 1, this speaker is undoubtedly Jesus Christ.
Now we look at what John saw as he arrives on the other side of the door in heaven. 2022 - John is commanded to "Come up here", and is immediately given the ability in the Spirit to do so. When he “goes through the door in heaven”, the first thing he sees is a throne. Remember, this is IN heaven NOT on earth. The throne is occupied. When we saw Christ in Chapter 1, he was not seated - or at least we are not told that he was. On this throne, someone is seated.
The one on the throne appeared as jasper and carnelian. Other references to jasper show that there was a jasper in the High Priest's breastplate and also jasper is mentioned as a "covering" for the "King of Tyre" when he was created in Eden. After Rev. 4 we see jasper as a building material, and there is this:
"And he carried me away in the Spirit to a great, high mountain, and showed me the holy city Jerusalem coming down out of heaven from God, having the glory of God, its radiance like a most rare jewel, like a jasper, clear as crystal." [Rev 21:10-11 ESV]. So what do jasper and carnelian really look like?
2023 - Here is what Wikipedia says about carnelian: Carnelian (also spelled cornelian[3]) is a brownish-red mineral commonly used as a semi-precious gemstone. Similar to carnelian is sard, which is generally harder and darker (the difference is not rigidly defined, and the two names are often used interchangeably). Both carnelian and sard are varieties of the silica mineral chalcedony colored by impurities of iron oxide. The color can vary greatly, ranging from pale orange to an intense almost-black coloration. Significant localities include Yanacodo (Peru); Ratnapura (Sri Lanka); and Thailand.[2] It has been found in Indonesia, Brazil, India, Russia (Siberia), and Germany.[citation needed] . Some translations say sardius instead of carnelian. Note above that they are essentially the same thing.
Above is a polished carnelian. Carnelian and sardius are about the same thing.
Here is what we know about jasper from Wiki: Jasper, an aggregate of microgranular quartz and/or cryptocrystallinechalcedony and other mineral phases,[1][2] is an opaque,[3] impure variety of silica, usually red, yellow, brown or green in color; and rarely blue. The common red color is due to iron(III)inclusions. Jasper breaks with a smooth surface and is used for ornamentation or as a gemstone. It can be highly polished and is used for items such as vases, seals, and snuff boxes. The specific gravity of jasper is typically 2.5 to 2.9.[4]Jaspillite is a banded-iron-formation rock that often has distinctive bands of jasper.
Jasper, as we know it, is not clear. It is a very red, very fine-grained rock. Carnelian is also red. The primary difference in the two is that Carnelian is translucent, but jasper is opaque. So let’s go with the idea of a polished “red” coloration, some of which has a sort of glow from the light behind it, and some that is just a flat shiny surface red.
While jasper can be many colors, sardius is usually red. It is interesting that it is not the throne itself but the one who sat there that had the appearance of jasper and carnelian.
A very similar description is used of the new Jerusalem, in Rev 21:11 “having the glory of God, its radiance like a most rare jewel, like a jasper, clear as crystal.” Clear jasper would indeed be very rare.
While we are talking about thrones, let’s look at some other descriptions:
First, there is Isaiah's view of God's throne in Isaiah 6: "In the year that King Uzziah died I saw the Lord sitting upon a throne, high and lifted up; and the train of his robe filled the temple
2 Above him stood the seraphim. Each had six wings: with two he covered his face, and with two he covered his feet, and with two he flew." [Isa 6:1,2 ESV]. There were seraphim – a type of angel with six wings – above the throne. The throne is near the heavenly temple, and God is wearing a robe.
Next, we have Ezekiel's vision of the same throne: "Over the heads of the living creatures there was the likeness of an expanse, shining like awe-inspiring crystal, spread out above their heads." [Eze 1:22 ESV]
"And above the expanse over their heads there was the likeness of a throne, in appearance like sapphire; and seated above the likeness of a throne was a likeness with a human appearance." [Eze 1:26 ESV]
"And upward from what had the appearance of his waist I saw as it were gleaming metal, like the appearance of fire enclosed all around. And downward from what had the appearance of his waist I saw as it were the appearance of fire, and there was brightness around him." [Eze 1:27 ESV]
"Like the appearance of the bow that is in the cloud on the day of rain, so was the appearance of the brightness all around. Such was the appearance of the likeness of the glory of the LORD. And when I saw it, I fell on my face, and I heard the voice of one speaking." [Eze 1:28 ESV]
So from Ezekiel we learn that sometimes the seraphim are above the throne and sometimes below, or that the seraphim are above, and another kind of creature is down below the throne. We get a description of the throne itself. It is the color of sapphire. The one on the throne is here described as looking like “enclosed fire” above the waist, and below the waist, fire. Reddish, orangey, clear as crystal jasper comes to mind. Glowing jasper perhaps. It is very bright around the throne – not the kind of “bright” that blinds you in this case, but like the brightness of a sky where you’d see a rainbow. In that case, the brightness is sourced behind us as we look at the brightness of the rainbow and the clouds.
These three - Isaiah, Ezekiel, and now John, are describing the same scene, each in the language of their time and within the constraints of their experience and vocabulary. But they are all describing the same throne, the same occupant. If we put all these visions of the throne of God together, we get amazing consistency, and each description “fits” with the others to get a more and more “physical” idea of what the scene looks like.
As the description continues, we see that there is an emerald green rainbow “around” the throne. It is interesting that this word translated “around” is used only three times in the NT, and all three of those are in the same chapter, in verses 3,4 and 8. The 24 thrones with the elders are arranged “around” the throne in vs 4, and in vs 8, the living creatures have eyes all around and within.
My impression, then, is that the green rainbow surrounds the throne, rather than what we see as an earthly rainbow which we’d picture as a semicircle running from one side, then ABOVE the throne, and down on the other side. Note that the 24 thrones are also “around” the main throne, as the emerald rainbow is “around” the throne. I see them both as encircling the throne in the middle.
The next things we see, in verse 4, are 24 lesser thrones around it, with 24 elders seated on them. They have white robes and golden crowns. First, we ought to ask why there are 24 of them? I always thought there must be two from each tribe. But as you read the Books of Moses, when he calls for the elders, it is always just one from each tribe. Never two. MSB says the 24 are not the elders of the tribes, because at this point in the vision, Israel is not yet redeemed. They are still under God's wrath. So they don't represent Israel.
They also don't represent the saints that come out of tribulation since the tribulation has not yet started. Perhaps these somehow represent the church? Except that there are seven churches, not 6 or 12 or 24. If we assume this scene is taking place post-rapture, perhaps these are 24 church elders from the church age? But we have no verse in scripture to tell us that some from the church will rule in heaven. We know the apostles will judge the 12 tribes, but there are only 12 of them, and that will be during the Millennial, which has not even begun at this point.
So to my thinking, we have a significant difficulty here in explaining who these 24 elders really are. And remember - this is not a symbolic vision, this is a door into what heaven actually looks like. Those 24 lesser thrones and those 24 elders were there. If they are there "before" the rapture, as I believe, then they are there today. So again, who are they?
We have seen references to the 70 elders of Israel in the OT. So without meaning the head of a tribe, it can be a title given older men who have wisdom and give good advice. Perhaps these 24 are the elders of heaven. Perhaps they are not men any more than the four creatures we will see later are men. Perhaps they are ancient angels, full of experience and wisdom, and perhaps advising lower angels as to the conduct of spiritual warfare. For me, this is the best available explanation, though it is based on general inference…and on the LACK of contradictory information. From here on, I will assume that is who these elders are, and just consider this a sort of loose end. Here are some additional references to the 24 elders in Revelation, none of which, to my thinking, contradict the hypothesis above:
10 the twenty-four elders fall down before him who is seated on the throne and worship him who lives forever and ever. They cast their crowns before the throne, saying, [Rev 4:10 ESV]
8 And when he had taken the scroll, the four living creatures and the twenty-four elders fell down before the Lamb, each holding a harp, and golden bowls full of incense, which are the prayers of the saints. ...
14 And the four living creatures said, "Amen!" and the elders fell down and worshiped. [Rev 5:8, 14 ESV]
16 And the twenty-four elders who sit on their thrones before God fell on their faces and worshiped God, [Rev 11:16 ESV]
4 And the twenty-four elders and the four living creatures fell down and worshiped God who was seated on the throne, saying, "Amen. Hallelujah!" [Rev 19:4 ESV]
There are a few other references to one or another of these elders acting singly, but in all these above, what they do is worship Theos at times, and the Lamb at times. So they could be either men or angels. I suppose the biggest objection to saying they are angels is that nowhere else in the Bible are angels called elders. To that objection, I offer these verses:
8 When the Most High gave to the nations their inheritance, when he divided mankind, he fixed the borders of the peoples according to the number of the sons of God. [Deu 32:8 ESV]
6 Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan also came among them. [Job 1:6 ESV]
7 when the morning stars sang together and all the sons of God shouted for joy? [Job 38:7 ESV]
36 for they cannot die anymore, because they are equal to angels and are sons of God, being sons of the resurrection. [Luk 20:36 ESV]
19 For the creation waits with eager longing for the revealing of the sons of God. [Rom 8:19 ESV]
So I would make the case that these sons of God are in fact the wisest of the angels, who are therefore put in charge of spiritual goings on in and on the earth.
Bottom line is that I do not know who they are, but I think the above is a pretty well-developed and reasoned out argument – ESPECIALLY in the absence of anything that seems significantly better!
LATER - In my reading today, 7/19/23, were 1 Chronicles 23,24. And I found this passage: 4 Since more chief men were found among the sons of Eleazar than among the sons of Ithamar, they organized them under sixteen heads of fathers' houses of the sons of Eleazar, and eight of the sons of Ithamar. [1Ch 24:4 ESV]. This adds up to 24 "head priests". This was done by David as he set up both priests and Levites to serve in the coming Temple that Solomon would build. No "chiefs" are named over the 24,000 Levites chosen for service of the Temple, but 24 heads of families - 24 elders - are named over the priests...and I think by inference also over the Levites. Eleazar and Ithamar are the sons of Aaron, the first High Priest, and all subsequent High Priests are from these lines. So think about it...24 head priests to serve in the Temple of Solomon, where, in the Holy of Holies we find the Ark of the Covenant, and the mercy seat where God meets men. 24 priests, figuratively surrounding the "seat" of God on earth. And now, in Revelation, we see 24 elders - chief angels perhaps, I still think that makes sense, but now I see them as angelic priests from the ranks of the angels - surrounding the actual throne of God! THIS is what the 24 elders are about.
2024 - Addendum. 24 because there are 24 hours in a day. The idea, the symbolism, is that these elders constantly worship God, praise him, and carry out his commands. Just as the 24 priests were always on duty in the early days. I think now that this is what this means...and now, I think it is pretty obvious and I wonder how I missed it before.
Next we see some sound and lighting effects described. Lightning, rumbling, and peals of thunder. I think it is very important that we see where these things originate – they are coming “From the throne…” Look first at this verse:
5 From the throne came flashes of lightning, and rumblings and peals of thunder, and before the throne were burning seven torches of fire, which are the seven spirits of God, [Rev 4:5 ESV]. We see very similar descriptive language in other places in Revelation:
5 Then the angel took the censer and filled it with fire from the altar and threw it on the earth, and there were peals of thunder, rumblings, flashes of lightning, and an earthquake. [Rev 8:5 ESV]
19 Then God's temple in heaven was opened, and the ark of his covenant was seen within his temple. There were flashes of lightning, rumblings, peals of thunder, an earthquake, and heavy hail. [Rev 11:19 ESV]
18 And there were flashes of lightning, rumblings, peals of thunder, and a great earthquake such as there had never been since man was on the earth, so great was that earthquake. [Rev 16:18 ESV]
It is worth considering that the use of this language after Chapter 4 is to remind us that these things that are happening are sourced at this throne in heaven. Perhaps when we see lightning and hear thunder we are to look toward this throne and realize that what is about to happen is coming from that throne. Maybe this is like trumpets heralding a decree from God.
Continuing with verse 5 we see: “…and before the throne were burning seven torches of fire, which are the seven spirits of God," [Rev 4:5 ESV]. We saw these seven spirits back in Rev 1:4, as part of the salutation of this book. They were also before the throne at that point. I see these as representing the chief angels, one over each of the seven dominions of God. I see them as being torches, because these angels were not present at the throne but out doing the business of God in the dominions, supervising, commanding the troops, carrying on the battle in the spiritual realm that we on earth never see. I am basing this interpretation in great measure on these verses:
13 The prince of the kingdom of Persia withstood me twenty-one days, but Michael, one of the chief princes, came to help me, for I was left there with the kings of Persia, ...
20 Then he said, "Do you know why I have come to you? But now I will return to fight against the prince of Persia; and when I go out, behold, the prince of Greece will come.
21 But I will tell you what is inscribed in the book of truth: there is none who contends by my side against these except Michael, your prince. [Dan 10:13, 20-21 ESV].
So here, we have the names of three of the seven dominions. Persia, Greece, and Israel. Michael is only one of the chief princes, of which I believe there are seven total. We can see that Persia is a dominion defined both by Satan, who has a prince that had to be fought, and by God, because THIS angel that comes to talk to Daniel is from that dominion. As I picture it, we have the throne, the four creatures, the seven torches, and the 24 elders. That seems very ordered to me, but we really cannot tell from the description where everyone is actually located.
Next, we get this description: "and before the throne there was as it were a sea of glass, like crystal. And around the throne, on each side of the throne, are four living creatures, full of eyes in front and behind:" [Rev 4:6 ESV]
There is also this very similar description later in Revelation: 2 And I saw what appeared to be a sea of glass mingled with fire--and also those who had conquered the beast and its image and the number of its name, standing beside the sea of glass with harps of God in their hands. [Rev 15:2 ESV]. Note that this is described as a “sign”, whereas Rev 4:6 is a “real place”. Glass is static, a sea has constant movement. In the “sign”, people stand BESIDE the sea of glass. If it was solid, they could stand ON it. Note that it is not described as being AROUND the throne but BEFORE it. Only in front, perhaps limiting direct access to the one upon the throne.
((((2025 - NO!!! This whole paragraph is wrong because the quote about the conquerors around the throne is NOT in Rev 4, NOT seen by John at this point, but much LATER, in Rev 15. So the correct conclusion is that in Rev 15, the rapture has already occurred because the conquerors are there. So...if those who conquered the beast, its image, and the number of its name are already standing around the throne, we have to conclude that John is seeing a heavenly vision of future events. The beast has not yet arrived on earth when John sees this vision. Yet we see that some who "survived" the beast and the image set up in the Temple. So how did they get there? They conquered, so it seems unlikely that they died and went to heaven. What seems much more likely is that they were still alive at the rapture, still faithful at the rapture, that they had persevered until the end, and were taken up in the rapture. And then think of the implications of that idea! The seals have not been opened yet. Here is some pretty strong evidence for a pre-seal rapture...even though we know that the "beast" had been recognized and "survived". How would that play out then if we go on with this sequence? As in Matt 24, the church sees the abomination of desolation, and recognizes what is about to happen. The end is upon them, this is a critical sign. And then we get 21 For then there will be great tribulation, such as has not been from the beginning of the world until now, no, and never will be. 22 And if those days had not been cut short, no human being would be saved. But for the sake of the elect those days will be cut short. [Mat 24:21-22 ESV], which means the church will go through a period of persecution beyond any ever before seen. It will be so intense that Satan would have, could have killed every man, woman, and child on the planet in his zeal to preempt the last days. But God stopped Satan's murderous attack by rapturing out the church. And then the seven seals begin, AFTER the rapture, but not before this intense persecution of the church. Yes. This seems to fit with a lot more of what we're about to see than anything that came before. I have hinted at this before, that maybe a lot of pretty bad things happen before the 70th week begins, and THIS scenario fits that. The 70th Week of Daniel would not start until the "end of the age", that is, until the church and the New Covenant are complete. Wow. AND NOW, just a few minutes later, I see that this is all a mistake, and does not hold up, because the quote upon which I based it all is actually in Rev 15. Oh well. Sometimes I mess up! BUT WAIT!!! Now that I have noted that the conquerors ARE near the throne in Chapter 15, but NOT here in Chapter 4, I know that at this point THE RAPTURE HAS NOT OCCURRED!!! So it must happen AFTER Chapter 4 and BEFORE Chapter 15. So we're back to the Sixth Seal, and this is in fact another piece in corroborating that idea.)))
Now we come to the last descriptive passage of the scene. Four living creatures are also around the throne, one on each side. They are "full of eyes". One creature is like a lion, another an ox, the third a man, and the fourth an eagle in flight. They have six wings, and praise God without ceasing. These are seraphim - also described in Ezekiel in this verse: 2 Above him stood the seraphim. Each had six wings: with two he covered his face, and with two he covered his feet, and with two he flew. [Isa 6:2 ESV]. These seraphim continually and without ceasing, say “Holy, holy, holy is the Lord God Almighty. BUT, it also says that whenever they give glory and honor and thanks, the 24 elders fall down before him, worshiping, and cast their crowns before him. So while there is continual praise, there is also something else, something special and periodic, that requires a more widespread response.
Remember, this is Theos on this throne. God Almighty Jehovah. This is not Christ.
2026 - Not sure exactly where to put this note, but I want it in here somewhere:
7 the first living creature like a lion, the second living creature like an ox, the third living creature with the face of a man, and the fourth living creature like an eagle in flight. [Rev 4:7 ESV]
There is a passage in Revelation somewhere with an eagle flying overhead. I had wondered what that was, but I see now that it could well be this angel – cherubim I think – delivering a message from the very throne of God.