Per MSB, Daniel bridges the entire 70 years of Judah's captivity, from about 605-536 BC.  9 of the 12 chapters of the book relate revelation through dreams/visions.  Daniel is to the OT what Revelation is to the NT.  Daniel 2:4b - 7:28 prophetically describe the course of Gentile world history.  This book begins in 605 BC, when Nebuchadnezzar first conquered Jerusalem and took captives.  This says Neb took captives from Jerusalem three times.  In 605, 597, and lastly in 586 BC.  I had in my head that it was 588 BC the last time...Need to go back and check all the places I got this wrong!  So Daniel was taken captive the first time, and Ezekiel was taken the second time.

Chapter 1
Verse 1, the third year of the reign of Jehoiakim.  MSB says 606-605 BC, the third year by Babylonian dating.  A little side item:  this is by the Babylonian tradition of dating.  They never counted the year the King ascended the throne as a year, but made his first year the following year.  A year when he was King for the whole year.  In the Judean system, the year the king ascended was counted as year one.  This explains many things.  
In this year Nebuchadnezzar again laid siege to Jerusalem, and took captives and items from the Temple.   These he took to Shinar, another name for Babylon, and he put the Temple items in the temple of his own gods.  They were Bel, or Marduk (Marduk is the same as Merodach.)  The Babylonians believed that stealing other people's gods, or things from those gods, showed the superiority of their gods over those of the conquered.

Nebuchadnezzar has some of the "best and brightest and best looking" singled out and taken to Babylon for training in the ways of Babylon.  Among those so taken were Daniel, Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego.  They were to be trained at the kings expense for three years and then examined for fitness by him.  

In a first act of faithfulness against temptation, Daniel asks to be excused from eating the king's assigned diet and to eat vegetables and drink water instead.  The Chief Eunuch says he is too afraid of the King to let Daniel eat different food.  If it doesn't work, the Eunuch believes the King will kill him.  This is a kind of fear that we don't know about in this country.  Daniel does not defy the Eunuch outright, but he does not give up, either.  Next, he goes to the steward in charge of their food and asks this man for different food and drink.  But only for 10 days as a test.  Perhaps for 10 days while the Eunuch was busy elsewhere?  So Daniel started at the top, and then came down.  He asked for less of the lower official than he had asked of the first .  And this time, his request is granted.  They look healthier than the others.  So Daniel remains faithful, and the eunuch in charge of them learns that Daniel's suggestions can work out very well.  During the next three years, the way I read it, God gave them supernatural learning ability.  Daniel was adept in visions and dreams, the all of them developed learning and skill in all literature and wisdom.  At the end of the three years, they are brought to Nebuchadnezzar.  He sees that they are more learned than all the magicians and enchanters that were in his kingdom.  They "stood before the king", I think this means they were in the first rank of his advisors.  So from slaves to the King's advisors in just three years of captivity.  Another example of God turning what was seemingly awful into a unique situation where they could be used by God to directly influence one who was arguably the most powerful man in the world at that time.  The chapter ends this way:
21 And Daniel was there until the first year of King Cyrus. [Dan 1:21 ESV]  We see that Daniel is going to maintain his position for a very long time indeed.  We should remember this.  He earned a very long term position.
So the first chapter covers the taking away to captivity and the first three years that Daniel is in Babylon.  Three years seems a long time, but this chapter goes right through it.  The story of Daniel's rise in influence - if not in direct power - is off to a fast start.

Chapter 2
Nebuchadnezzar has a dream. Whether he remembers it or not I cannot tell.  If he does remember, he refuses to tell his magicians what it was, lest they come up with a concocted interpretation.  Neb believes that if they are legit, they will also know the dream.  They give this answer, the third time he asks them for help:
10 The Chaldeans answered the king and said, "There is not a man on earth who can meet the king's demand, for no great and powerful king has asked such a thing of any magician or enchanter or Chaldean. 11 The thing that the king asks is difficult, and no one can show it to the king except the gods, whose dwelling is not with flesh." [Dan 2:10-11 ESV]
This is a nice set up.  From the mouths of those who profess themselves to be the kings foremost experts, we hear that only gods can know the dreams others have, and that they are not in contact with any gods because gods don't speak to flesh and blood.  Turns out there is one God who does!
Note also that Neb is living up to his reputation.  No King has ever asked the impossible of his magicians before, and the sentence for non-performance is not just death, but to be torn limb from limb and have your house - and presumably this happens with your family inside - laid in ruins.  Truly this is a King who exercises his power through threats, fear, and physical violence.  Perhaps more so than any King ever before him.

Nebuchadnezzar loses his temper - a dangerous thing for everyone else.  He orders all the wise men and magicians and such in all of Babylon killed.  A blanket death sentence for all of them.  Think how imprudent this is, to wipe out all the qualified advisors in the whole country and leave yourself no one to consult.  Such supreme arrogance.  

When they come to kill Daniel and his friends (and who knows how many had already died from this order), Daniel answers "with prudence and discretion".  Wish I could do that!

Once Daniel learns what is going on - apparently the King was not required to give you a reason he was having you killed - Daniel says he can do that, and asks for an appointment.
Then he and S, M, and A all pray, and the dream and its interpretation are revealed to Daniel.  Daniel prays a prayer of Thanksgiving.  In the middle of it is this verse:
21 He changes times and seasons; he removes kings and sets up kings; he gives wisdom to the wise and knowledge to those who have understanding; [Dan 2:21 ESV]
Wisdom is given to the wise (to those who already have it) and knowledge to those smart enough already to grasp it.  This is repeated over and over in Proverbs.  Proverbs also tells us how to be wise in the first place..."The fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom".  Prov 1:7, and 9:10 both use almost these same words.  Those who don't fear God lack enough wisdom to "cultivate".    Daniel and his friends were far beyond this problem.

This whole section of Daniel's prayer is interesting.  It says so much about God - setting God apart from all other gods, placing Him above all things, in charge of all things.  Here is the whole prayer:
20 Daniel answered and said: "Blessed be the name of God forever and ever, to whom belong wisdom and might. 21 He changes times and seasons; he removes kings and sets up kings; he gives wisdom to the wise and knowledge to those who have understanding; 22 he reveals deep and hidden things; he knows what is in the darkness, and the light dwells with him. 23 To you, O God of my fathers, I give thanks and praise, for you have given me wisdom and might, and have now made known to me what we asked of you, for you have made known to us the king's matter." [Dan 2:20-23 ESV]  He knows what is in the darkness.  Nothing is hidden from God, nothing scares God.  In Jordan Peterson's terms, chaos does not exist for God.  There is no unknown for Him.  Wouldn't this mean we should have no fear of chaos either?  That any time we do fear it, we should turn to God, who knows what is there, and depend on Him?  Should we ever seek chaos?  Or am I putting too much into what Peterson said?  He was talking about yin and yang, so he was going further than just daily unknowns.  He is talking about chaos as an entity, and saying keep one foot in chaos.  After reading this, I am not sure that is correct.  Chaos in the sense of "I haven't read that book yet", or I have not yet had Thermodynamics, that kind of unknown I am ok with.  But I don't know about more than that, about seeking what we fear.  But...isn't seeking what we fear and conquering it the stuff that heroes are made of?  And do we want to be heroes...or servants?  Wait though...chaos is what builds faith.  Trusting without knowing.  How can you trust unless there is an unknown.  Trust requires the unknown, the unseen.  So, the question is whether God encourages us to delve into the unknown, to build our faith, or whether He made the world like it is so there would always be unknowns and so always reason to trust.  The Chinese missionary...he was always "creating" situations that tested God to see if his trust in God was strong or weak.  If he asked for the seemingly impossible, did his faith really get over the bar?  How impossible was it.  So this man I believe, did put one foot into chaos on purpose.  But is this the same thing?

Ah, the courage and compassion Daniel shows in vs 24.  He tells Arioch, captain of the King's Guard, who is charge of killing all the wise men, not to kill the wise men of Babylon.  So first, Daniel says don't kill these other guys.  They were polytheistic pagans, but Daniel didn't want them killed.  I'm sure he made some friends in the enemy camp that day!  Then he tells Arioch that he can answer the King's questions.
Arioch immediately takes Daniel in to see the King.  The King asks Daniel if he can really answer, and Daniel does not hesitate, nor stall, nor dissemble.  Daniel tells the King, firstly, what the dream means, and then tells him the dream.  This powerful statement should not be overlooked:
28 but there is a God in heaven who reveals mysteries, and he has made known to King Nebuchadnezzar what will be in the latter days. Your dream and the visions of your head as you lay in bed are these: [Dan 2:28 ESV]

Beginning in vs 31 Daniel tells the dream, of the giant statue, bright in appearance, and made of gold, silver, iron and clay.  This statue foretells what MSB calls the future history of the Gentiles.  All is summarized here.  We get this, because once Jerusalem and Judah were conquered, the Age of the Gentiles had begun.  It truly began with Nebuchadnezzar.  The Jews were to be doubly punished for their unfaithfulness, and God would start a "new timeline" with the Gentiles, to whom He would send a great light!  The suffering savior was for the Gentiles!  The Conquering King, yet to come in the Millennial reign, is for the Jews!  THIS is how it ties together!!!

Look at all the information contained in 2:36-45.  Strong, worldwide kingdoms for a while - Babylon, Persia and the Medes, Alexander, and Rome...but after Rome, no true world power is successful.  Germany tried, but it did not succeed as the previous four had.  They were un-challengeable.    Since Rome fell, kingdoms have been small, they have dealt with neighbors rather than the "known world".  They come and they go, some strong, like iron, others fall apart at the first sign of trouble.  Ultimately, at the end of the Gentile Age, Jesus returns - with his army - and puts down all the Gentile Kingdoms then in power.  This will include the one world government of the Antichrist, which still has kings and kingdoms under it, ruling as vassals under him.  God will crush this, and set up the Millennial Kingdom in it's place.  It is all here, in summary form, revealed to Babylon, whom God had given power over all the earth so that it could exact God's wrath from the Jews.

(((Need to insert a link to the comparison chart here)))
 

This all-powerful King then falls on his face - he bows! - before Daniel!!!  He commands an offering and incense to Daniel - as if Daniel is a god!  Daniel and his three friends are catapulted to the top of the power pyramid in Babylon...likely losing the friends made by stopping the executions.  People are fickle.

Chapter 3
The first words of the first verse are "King Nebuchadnezzar made an image of gold..."  He didn't figure out that Daniel's God was the only God, and that He didn't care much for idols and images.  Remember the verse in 2:
47 The king answered and said to Daniel, "Truly, your God is God of gods and Lord of kings, and a revealer of mysteries, for you have been able to reveal this mystery." [Dan 2:47 ESV]

2020-The King understands that God is greater than gods, but he still believes there are many.  He believes in God but he is ignorant of the theology of God.  His ignorance not only keeps him from "conversion", but leads to further sin on his part.  Since his understanding of God has increased, his responsibility has increased, and getting it wrong is more costly than before.  The more you know, they more you bear responsibility for sin.

Per Rummages sermon last week, this idol was distorted.  10 tall and 1 wide.  For me, that would be 64" tall and 6.4" wide.  More like a pillar than a statue.  Similar proportions to the Washington Monument.  The phrase "that Nebuchadnezzar had set up" is repeated many times.  I think Hance preached about this one time.  Neb did all the setting up.  God over-ruled it all.  This statue was Nebuchadnezzar establishing himself as an object of worship.  He was hereby putting all on notice that he himself was to be worshiped, on pain of death.  Many religions have used this method of making converts.  Rummage said something about those measurements....Ah...there were 6.  The number for man.  The proportions - 60 cubits high, 6 cubits wide.  Man again.  Also, there are three sixes there...

2020-It seems to me there are many parallels between Nebuchadnezzar at this point and the actions of Antichrist in Revelation.  Here, it is not that Neb requires the people to worship him, but that they worship this idol, this inanimate, incapable thing of an idol that he has set up.  Doesn't Antichrist do the same at first?  There is the beast and the false prophet, and they set up an idol.  The idol they set up can actually talk I believe, but it is nevertheless an idol.  It must be important that the worship be directed by Neb/Anti at first, and then that worship usurped and redirected to them personally.  Does Neb ever require that they worship him only?  As the age of Israel ends with Neb as Antichrist this first time, and in the Double Punishment part, Antiochus Epiphanes, so the age of the Gentiles ends with Antichrist, doing the same things that were done to end the Jews.  Oh my...so much fits perfectly!  But...Wasn't Antiochus Epiphanes during the intertestamentary period?  Perhaps he doesn't even count.  Maybe he is a Satanic diversion to keep us from seeing the real march of history.  It was the Romans who ultimately and finally destroyed the temple.  Didn't they also set up a statue in the temple and require the Jews to worship it?  And that was after the new covenant was delivered.  Perhaps this is the event that we should worry about?  Did A-E set up an idol?  I need to look into all this.  This line is important.  LATER in 2020, but same day.  This is all wrong.  The statue Neb set up was nowhere near the Temple.  So not at all the same as A-E and AC.

The Jews don't worship the statue.  Some Chaldeans come forward to accuse them.  Politics.  Power plays.  If you can't outsmart them, if they are truly better than you, then you assault them on another front.  You attack their loyalty, and their obedience.  Hmm...Gun control.  These are people who won't be ruled.  So equate them with murderers and cut throats every time a murderer or a cut throat makes the news.  Trump can't be bought, can't be corrupted (yes, maybe because he is already basking in his own version of corruption), but in any case, he won't "bow to the authority" of the Democrats.  So his character must be attacked, and he must be torn down for "questionable practices" that pale in comparison to the good he does.   Same kind of attack the Chaldean's made on the Jews.  It was about who had power, and how to get some of it, never about the accomplishments or the motives of those attacked.

2023 - "people who won't be ruled", in the previous paragraph, is not the best wording.  A better phrase is "people who worship a higher than you".  People who test your philosophy, your orders, your rules against what the Bible says.  People who have their own "highest authority" and are willing to die before converting to yours.  In Neb's day, such people could be killed where they stood.  I think the same happens today, but takes this kind of government longer.  But that is changing.  New laws provide short cuts to isolating such people quickly and shutting them up.  Big tech participates in this with their censorship.  I know.  A lot of what is censored is about politics, not religion, but these other things are just practice and perfection of the tools that will be used one day against religion.  The real question, the scary question, is about just how quickly we are closing in on this day in the US.  The whole world is going - religious bastions are showing their willingness to compromise:'We are all children of God:' Pope Francis says homosexuality is not a crime in interview", https://news.yahoo.com/children-god-pope-francis-says-203105707.html
Any church that so disavows orthodoxy will not have a very difficult time crawling into bed with the man of lawlessness. (3 Let no one deceive you in any way. For that day will not come, unless the rebellion comes first, and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of destruction, [2Th 2:3 ESV]).  We are even denying chromosomes, because that is the only way to get past "male and female, created he them".  We are trying to undermine God all the way back to creation, to Genesis.
It is going to get harder and harder.  Sons against fathers, husbands against wives, sisters against brothers....Even believers own families will turn against them.  10 And then many will fall away and betray one another and hate one another. [Mat 24:10 ESV].  This verse comes before the MoL is revealed.  This could be today.  Is today in some places.  One day it will be the way of things worldwide.  It will be very hard.

Neb is furious when he hears these charges.  Neb has S, M, and A brought before him.  There is no indication that he "hopes" the charges are untrue - as will be the case later with Daniel.  He is likely seething with anger as he asks if the accusations are true.  Then he tells them he's about to give them a chance to worship him, as required.  He's going to make sure they understand the rules.  And he also makes it plain that if they don't, he will without hesitation have them burned alive.  He knows what Daniel had done with the dream.  He knows that Daniel's God is the same God these three worship.  Yet knowing all this he is arrogant enough to say "...And who is the god who will deliver you out of my hands?"  Not only  has he deified himself, he has also set himself at the top of the pantheon of gods.  He sees himself as more powerful than ANY god!

2023 - See the blatant irrationality of this kind of thinking?   We cannot expect "truth" to prevail, because truth is not discernible to those who place themselves above God.

They answer that it doesn't matter.  Either God will save them, or He will not.  But either way, they will not violate God's 1st Commandment by worshiping this image.

Nebuchadnezzar loses his temper with them.  "Filled with fury" in the ESV.  Temper seems to have been one weakness of his, pride was the other.  These two brought him down.  He has them thrown in the fire.  We know the story.  Those who threw them in are killed by the heat, then Neb sees not three but four walking around in the furnace, unhurt by the fire.  The fourth is like "a son of the gods".  We don't really know who this fourth one was.  Could have been Jesus, but I don't see why it necessarily should be him.  Could have been an angel, sent by God to protect them in the fire.  What Neb knew is that this fourth had a supernatural appearance (MSB's description, not mine.)

Nebuchadnezzar orders that no one, anywhere, ever, insult the God of S, M, and A.  If they do, they are to be torn limb from limb.  If a whole country does this, that country is to be laid waste.  Then this man who considered himself higher than any god says this:
"...for there is no other god who is able to rescue in this way."  He recognizes that the living God is unique.  There is only  one God.  2020-No, that's wrong.  He still does not recognize that there is only one God.  For a second time, he has recognized that the God of Daniel, and of S, M, and A is more powerful than any other god.  But he still most certainly believes in other gods.  He orders that the God of the Hebrews not be insulted.  BECAUSE, no other god can do what this God does.  But his theology is still wrong.  He is still polytheistic.  He does not understand that there is ONLY ONE.

2023 - Hmm.  This is the second "lesson" God has given to Nebuchadnezzar as to who He is.  And twice, he has failed to fully comprehend the lesson.

S, M, and A are again promoted in Babylon.  We have no information on what happened to their accusers....

Chapter 4
MSB outline puts this chapter under the 2nd major point in Daniel - The Prophetic Course of Gentile Dominion, and under the 1st subpoint of that, called "The Dilemmas of Nebuchadnezzar", which runs from 2:1-4:37.
Nebuchadnezzar is now speaking in 1st person.  As a co-writer, almost, of this chapter.  It starts and ends with a praise, written by him, with narrative of personal events in between.  The two praises are in verse format, the rest in plain format.
Vs 4 starts with I, Nebuchadnezzar.  Never noticed this before.  Is he listed as a writer of the Bible?  Here are the verses:
1  King Nebuchadnezzar to all peoples, nations, and languages, that dwell in all the earth: Peace be multiplied to you! 2 It has seemed good to me to show the signs and wonders that the Most High God has done for me. 3 How great are his signs, how mighty his wonders! His kingdom is an everlasting kingdom, and his dominion endures from generation to generation. [Dan 4:1-3 ESV].
After Daniel's interpretation of his dream, Neb said there was no other God who could interpret dreams.  After the image of gold, he said there was no other God who could keep people safe in fires.  But his theology was still incomplete, still polytheistic.  But here in chapter four, that seems to have changed - or words are being put in his mouth.  "Most High God" is I believe a Hebrew title for the one God.  (2023 - Looked up a couple instances of this title, and it is not like the Jehovah Jirah kind of name.  It isn't real catchy transliterated, so I would guess that's why we don't use it.  In Daniel 3:26, it would be pronounced "elaha ly".)  Everlasting kingdom and dominion acknowledge that God is more powerful than the great Neb, and will still be around long after Neb has gone.  The theology here seems quite a bit matured from what it was earlier.

Nebuchadnezzar has another dream.  Again he calls in the magicians and so on, but none can interpret this dream, even though he at least tells them this one.  Daniel is eventually brought in.  This verse:
8 At last Daniel came in before me--he who was named Belteshazzar after the name of my god, and in whom is the spirit of the holy gods--and I told him the dream, saying, [Dan 4:8 ESV]
He talks about his god, and about the spirit of the holy gods.  We are back to polytheistic.  It makes the earlier salutation look even more "inserted".

2022 - I note that there is nothing at all about this dream in my chart of dreams and interpretations in the note on Daniel 1-3.  Why is this dream left out?  Because this is not about ages to come or nations or armies.  It is about the reckoning to Nebuchadnezzar for his arrogance.  I wonder if the reason for this is that God used Nebuchadnezzar differently than he had used Egypt or Assyria.  He did more for Neb than just have him conquer Jerusalem.  He gave man and beast into Neb's hands.  Perhaps with greater position came greater responsibility?  Rather than being brought low by conquest, God wanted Neb to understand where real power came from, even if you were the greatest King in the world.

A dream about a huge tree, that all the world can see.  Man and beast and birds eat from it and live in and under it.  A "watcher" comes down from heaven, a holy one.  He says to chop down this tree, and for all that are sustained by it to leave.  The tree is to be stripped of it's branches, the mind of a man taken from it and replaced with a beast's mind.  But the stump is to be left, bound with iron and bronze.  This is to last for seven periods.  This vs:
17 The sentence is by the decree of the watchers, the decision by the word of the holy ones, to the end that the living may know that the Most High rules the kingdom of men and gives it to whom he will and sets over it the lowliest of men.' [Dan 4:17 ESV]
I don't know who the watchers are.  MSB does not address the question.  Nebuchadnezzar is writing.  Perhaps this is something he saw in his dream, an angel sent by God, but in his pagan mind, this was a watcher.  A figure from Babylonian culture was the best he could come up with to describe an angel?  We are given the reason for this strange "sentence".  It isn't just about Neb, but about the living.  All need to know that history is what God makes it, not what men accomplish on their own.  He asks Daniel to interpret this second dream.

2023 - This year, it occurs to me that this "watcher" comes down, and passes on the order to cut down the tree.  God wouldn't say this.  He would send a messenger to give the orders.  I should find examples of that very thing.  Note also that it does not say this decree is from God, but "the sentence if by the decree of the watchers, the decision by the word of the holy ones".  So it's like they tried the case.  A decision was made by the holy ones that something must be done.  Then, the watchers decided what would be an appropriate sentence.  There is that story about how there was this council in heaven and different angels came up with ideas about how to do what God wanted done.  God listened to their ideas and selected one.  I believe this particular angel was going to put false prophesy in the mouths of the prophets.  But in light of this passage, that might be seen as the sentencing phase of that other decision by "the holy ones".  Where is that story?   
Found it!
19 And Micaiah said, "Therefore hear the word of the LORD: I saw the LORD sitting on his throne, and all the host of heaven standing beside him on his right hand and on his left; 20 and the LORD said, 'Who will entice Ahab, that he may go up and fall at Ramoth-gilead?' And one said one thing, and another said another. 21 Then a spirit came forward and stood before the LORD, saying, 'I will entice him.' 22 And the LORD said to him, 'By what means?' And he said, 'I will go out, and will be a lying spirit in the mouth of all his prophets.' And he said, 'You are to entice him, and you shall succeed; go out and do so.' [1Ki 22:19-22 ESV]
Just look how similar this is to what Daniel recounts.
BUT, look at this verse:
24 this is the interpretation, O king: It is a decree of the Most High, which has come upon my lord the king, [Dan 4:24 ESV]. So at the very least, God was in charge of teh holy ones who made the decision.  It is just like that other story...which I have been unable to find so far.

Daniel is at first afraid to tell Neb what the dream means.  But after encouragement from the King, Daniel says the great tree is Nebuchadnezzar.  This is the extent of who Nebuchadnezzar was:
22 it is you, O king, who have grown and become strong. Your greatness has grown and reaches to heaven, and your dominion to the ends of the earth. [Dan 4:22 ESV]
A very great king.  In some ways comparable to Solomon - surely Neb's kingdom was even larger.

Daniel says Nebuchadnezzar is going to go "insane".  He's going to eat grass, live outside, and for all intents and purposes, he will be an animal.  2020-It does not say he is going to go insane.  It says his human brain will be changed by God into an animal brain.  It won't be a defect in the brain he was born with, it will be a change that God performs.  This is a decree from God Himself, to humble Nebuchadnezzar until he realizes that God is in His heaven, and is in control even of such a great king, and can do with Neb whatever he cares to do.  Neb's kingdom will be preserved for him during his time as an animal.  Daniel urges Neb to repent and to be a Godly King, so maybe this sentence can be delayed.

The dream comes true a year later.  Nebuchadnezzar is on the roof, praising his own greatness and glory.  So his period of insanity starts right there, and he becomes like a beast.  He lives in the pasture, eats grass, his hair grows very long, and his fingernails grow like birds claws.  The seven "periods" are thought to mean 7 years.  But could be more or less.
I note that vss 28-33, where the sentence is imposed, are not written in first person.  It goes from "I" to "he".  Certainly Neb was in no condition to be writing.  Then in vs 34, it changes back to first person, as Nebuchadnezzar is restored in his mind.
This phrase, at the end of 35, is a good indication that Nebuchadnezzar now understood God's power:  "...and none can stay his hand or say to him, "What have you done?""  So it seems that the blessings written by Neb himself at the beginning and the end of the story are the bookends of the episode.  Nebuchadnezzar wrote the middle according to "who he was" during the time before and after the time he was more animal than human.  The middle is a narrative from the King who believed the Most High God was just one of many gods.  But the bookends were written by the changed King, who had experienced 7 years as an animal eating grass and living in the field, and who knew absolutely that God, not man, is in charge of events on the earth.

And this final verse of Chapter 4 summarizes Nebuchadnezzar's understanding of Daniel's God:
37 Now I, Nebuchadnezzar, praise and extol and honor the King of heaven, for all his works are right and his ways are just; and those who walk in pride he is able to humble. [Dan 4:37 ESV]
Pride can get you "corrected" very quickly.  So can worshiping idols and shedding innocent blood.  God does not let these things continue very long.  Possible FB post.

2023 - This is the third lesson God gives Nebuchadnezzar.  This third time, Neb says he understands now.  We don't seen any polytheistic language in Chapter 4...but the first two times, Neb appreciated God's power more than he did before the lesson, but he still did not see that "the Lord our God the Lord is One".  Does he get it now?
Also, the seven periods?  Could have been just 7 hours.  A week.  Or 7 years.  We have no real idea how long this was.

Chapter 5
In five, we have skipped ahead in time.  Belshazzar is now king of Babylon.  MSB says this is about 20 years later, in 539 BC.  
Belshazzar is having a feast for 1000 of his "lords".  He gets drunk, and orders that the gold and silver vessels stolen from the Temple in Jerusalem be brought in, so they can drink wine from these vessels dedicated to God while praising the gods of Babylon.  They are using vessels possibly made at the direction of Solomon specifically for use in the Temple to praise God for pagan worship of idols.  An affront to God.
2022 - Why were these vessels even on his mind?  20 years later, one wouldn't expect him to even remember them.  Someone or something planted this idea in his head  God, so that he would understand why his kingdom fell in a day, or Satan or one of his angels just wanting to reduce the respect in Babylon that Daniel had gained through Neb?  This second would imply that Satan did not know there was a foreign army nearby, nor that they would find their way into the city and conquer it that very night.  Satan is limited.

A hand writes something on the wall.  Apparently the writing persisted because the King is so frightened by this that his knees knock together.  He calls in all the wise men of Babylon and says that whoever can read and interpret this writing will be made third most powerful in the kingdom.  None are able to read it.  The Queen comes in, and tells Belshazzar about Belteshazzar, and the dreams he has interpreted in the past for Nebuchadnezzar, who is Belshazzar's father.  She says Daniel is very gifted in such matters, and was once made chief of the magicians.

Daniel is brought in.  The King tells Daniel that he has heard of him, and heard his reputation.  Apparently, Daniel had faded form prominence after Nebuchadnezzar, but was still living in Babylon.  Belshazzar makes Daniel the same offer if he will interpret the writing.  Which must still have been there on the wall.  Daniel says he doesn't want any gifts, give those to someone else.  But, he will interpret the writing.
He starts off telling Belshazzar that it was the Most High God who made Nebuchadnezzar great.  Daniel relates that God humbled Nebuchadnezzar by making him insane, so that he lived like a beast, and tells Belshazzar that the reason for all this is so Neb could know that it is God who determines the fortunes of all men.  Daniel tells Belshazzar that, though he already knew of these events, he had not humbled himself at all, but "...lifted up yourself against the Lord of heaven."  Then the interpretation.
The words were Mene mene.  Tekel.  Peres.  The meaning:
Mene - God has numbered the days of your kingdom and brought it to an end.  Note that this was written twice.
Tekel - You have been weighed in the balances, and found wanting.
Peres - your kingdom is divided and given to the Medes and Persians.  
In the MSB, which is NASB, it isn't Peres, it is Upharsin.  This is the plural of Peres.  There are notes on how these words all sound like similar words in Aramaic.  It is a good note to read.  (If you look at the notes from the last time I read this, it says one of the higher criticisms of the time of the writing of Daniel is that it uses Aramaic, a language which did not exist in Daniel's time.  I was thinking the Chapter Intro in MSB mentioned that Aramaic is used in the book but did not comment on it further.  The above says it is no longer a problem, but gives no further explanation as to why it isn't.  This would be a good study.)
Once Daniel has interpreted, the King makes good on his bargain.  Daniel gets purple clothing, a golden chain and is made 3rd highest in the kingdom.  Just before King Belshazzar is killed, that very night, as Babylon falls, and Darius the Mede receives the kingdom.  Daniel is not 3rd for very long...

The inclusion of extra-Biblical information in the MSB is very interesting.  It seems that history records no particular man as being named Darius.  It is a name used of 5 different Persian Kings.  Further, the city fell on Oct 29, 539 BC, and it was Cyrus who was King of Persia at the time.  Cyrus was there, and himself entered the city on this date.  The story is that a Persian General named Ugbaru had his men dig a diversion channel that stopped the flow of water into the city of Babylon and diverted it around it instead.  With the water level down, Ugbaru and his men invaded, and reached the city center/palace area without being seen.  They began their attack very possibly by killing the King.   There is also a man named Gubaru, that Cyrus appointed to be King of the Babylonian sector of his empire.   Some say Gubaru's second name was Darius.  There is a chart on Ezra 4-6 that shows several guys named Darius...so probably there's a doctoral thesis for someone here.  Note also that it says the particular "Darius" the Mede who received the kingdom that night, was about 62 years old.  An interesting detail, and I believe details are there for a reason.

Chapter 6
King Darius - whomever he really was, and if this was even the same one spoken of in chapter 5 - put 120 Satraps (I assume this is a Persian title) over various Babylonian provinces.  Then he set three high officials, whom the Satraps would report to.  Daniel was one of the three.  So he made out alright after the conquest.  Soon, Daniel distinguished himself as best of the three, and Darius determined to set him over the whole kingdom.
The other officials and the satraps team up to try and find fault with Daniel in the way he administers his responsibilities.  They fail to uncover ANY wrong doing.  So they decide the only way to get to Daniel is going to be a personal attack on his religious practices.  Persia surely brought in their own gods to replaced the Babylonian gods, and being pagans, they would have considered the Most High God as just another idol.  
They get the King - Darius - to make a law that none can pray to any but Darius for a period of 30 days.  Daniel prays three times a day toward Jerusalem despite this law, and the conspirators take note of it, and report it to Darius.
This upsets Darius greatly, and he "labors" to find a way to save Daniel from the lions den.  He has apparently become very impressed with Daniel and does not want to lose him.  But it was the law of the Medes and Persians that a law of the King could not be recalled.  If Darius breaks this, he himself could be removed (especially if he is actually an appointee king of Cyrus!)  So Darius calls for Daniel, and has him throw into the lion's den, and a stone placed over the entrance.  Darius first wishes Daniel well, and hopes that Daniel's God will continually deliver him.
The King was up all night worrying about Daniel.  At dawn, the King runs to the den, and in anguish calls and asks Daniel if his God, whom he continually serves, has saved him.  Interesting phrases.  The King wishes for God to continually save Daniel, because Daniel continually serves God.  Is there a FB post here?
Daniel answers that God sent an angel to close the mouths of the lions because Daniel was blameless before God.  He further says that he has done the king no wrong.
Darius then has all the conspirators who accused Daniel thrown into the lions den.  They, their wives, and their children.  Doesn't say in what order, but I cannot imagine the scene at the lions den as they are brought.  The lions kill them all.  Darius makes a proclamation that all are to tremble before the God of Daniel.  
MSB note says Daniel here demonstrated the evangelical potency of a godly, uncompromising life.

2022 - So to this point, the first six chapters of Daniel have been a sort of selected history of Babylon.  We had two visions from Neb, but only one went beyond his kingdom.  The events and stories of the first six chapters are well known.  Not eating the kings food, the fiery furnace, the tall statue, man turned to beast, and the lion's den.  All those stories are in the first six chapters in addition to the two visions of Nebuchadnezzar that Daniel interpreted.  This book is packed with lessons, perhaps because all these things took place at the seat of government of a very great nation, ruling over what was the known world at that time.  In 7, though, we will move on to other matters.  
In the outline of the book from MSB, item II continues through the end of chapter 7, and is labeled "The Prophetic Course of Gentile Dominion (2:1-7:28)".  After 7, we get III "The Prophetic Course of Israel's Destiny (8:1-12:13).  I had never noticed this division between the histories of the Gentiles and of Israel.  That is the kind of thing that ought to bring a lot of perspective to the rest of this book.


First time, 11/10/18
From Nebuchadnezzar to Belshazzar his son to Darius the Mede and then Cyrus the Persian.
Nebuchadnezzar lives as a beast 7 years.  Is there no surviving record of this?  Many questions, like how the kingdom was run during that time.
    Found this from April 1978: https://www.ministrymagazine.org/archive/1978/04/new-light-on-nebuchadnezzars-madness,
   

"New light on Nebuchadnezzar's madness


Siegfried H. Horn


Siegfried Horn, now retired, is a noted archeologist, author, and university professor. He served for several years as sponsor of the Biblical Archeology section of MINISTRY.

 
In 1870 higher criticism dominated Biblical scholarship in Germany. Most scholars believed that the book of Daniel was a product of the Maccabean period of the second century B.C. But some German scholars dissented. One of these was Otto Zockler, who in his commentary on the book of Daniel published in J. P. Lange's Bible Commentary,* capably defended the authenticity, historicity, and sixth-century origin of Daniel.
Confronting Zockler were six main arguments that critical scholars considered to be proof of a late-origin Daniel. These were as follows:
1. Aramaic, in which parts of the book of Daniel were written, was a late Semitic language not used in literature of the sixth century B.C.
2. Existence of three Greek words in Daniel 3 indicates that the book was written in the Hellenistic period, after Alexander the Great had brought Greek culture and language to the Oriental world.
3. Chronological contradictions between Daniel 1:1 and Jeremiah 25:1 show that the writer of Daniel was so far removed from the historical events he described that he made mistakes.
4. Mention of Belshazzar as last king of Babylon proves that the story is legendary. All ancient sources present Nabonidus as Babylon's last king and never even mention Belshazzar.
5. Ancient historians never mention Darius the Mede as king of Babylon, as Daniel 6 does; thus the book of Daniel is not a trustworthy historical source.
6. Nebuchadnezzar's madness of seven years, recorded in Daniel 4 but in no other ancient source, is further proof of the legendary nature of the book.
Today, the first four arguments no longer pose problems for the conservative Bible scholar. The solutions, however, obtained through archeological discoveries, are different than Zockler thought they would be.+
But what of the last two arguments for a late-dated Daniel? Have no discoveries been made that shed light on Darius the Mede or Nebuchadnezzar's madness?
The problem of Darius has at least a reasonable solution, which I suggested twenty-three years ago. It has satisfied some conservative scholars, though others feel the answer lies elsewhere. Reference to the September, 1959, Ministry, page 44, or The SDA Bible Commentary, volume 4, pages 814-817, will refresh your memory on the tentative explanation of who this Darius may have been.
The madness of Nebuchadnezzar has been a disturbing enigma, because no extra-Biblical records mention a mental derangement of the great Babylonian king. In defense of the historicity of the story, the conservative Bible student has pointed out, of course, that very little is known of any aspect of Nebuchadnezzar's life after his tenth year of reign. And, it might be added, it is not likely that many kings of any age would advertise such a humiliating disability.
Furthermore, lack of contemporary records does not mean some thing didn't happen. For example, we have no such records of Nebuchadnezzar's siege of Tyre a 13- year ordeal, lasting from 585 to 572 B.C.—except what Ezekiel tells us in his book (see Eze. 26:1-14; 29:17, 18). Yet five cuneiform tablets dating from 569 to 563 B.C. show that Tyre was in the hands of Nebuchadnezzar after 570 B.C. Another broken tablet with no date extant refers to food provided to "the king and his soldiers for their march against Tyre," a likely reference to the siege, during which the Babylonians sent supplies to their troops besieging the Phoenician city. 1
Another example of the lack of documentary records of Nebuchadnezzar's activities relates to a military campaign against Egypt in his later years. The prophets Jeremiah (43:10-13) and Ezekiel (29:19, 20) predicted such a campaign, but only a small fragment of a cuneiform tablet confirms that it occurred. The few broken lines of the fragment, owned by the British Museum, include information that in his "37th year [568/567 B.C.] Nebuchadnezzar, king of Bab[ylon], marched against] Egypt to deliver a battle. [Ama]sis of Egypt [called up his a]rm[y]." Amasis was defeated, despite his large force of chariots and horsemen, and help of allies. 2
Whatever the reason, the Babylonians did not leave us many records of their martial exploits and political accomplishments. Professor Eckhard Unger comments: "One of the most striking contrasts between Assyria and Babylonia is that the Assyrian monarchs brag with great glee about their military activities in their records while this was frowned upon by the Babylonians. This Babylonian idiosyncrasy is already observed with regard to the neo-Sumerian King Gudea of Lagash . . . who was a mighty ruler . . . but whose inscriptions speak only of his pious works and building activities.
Since other documents were not existing, this king was for a long time considered as insignificant. Exactly the same could be said of Nebuchadnezzar II, if we were not in formed by outside records, especially the Bible, about his military activities, which his own records pass over in silence. This is the reason that it is difficult to check on the biblical data about Nebuchadnezzar." 3
It should not surprise us, then, if we find no corroboration of Nebuchadnezzar's mental illness in Babylonian records. And, when we consider the humiliating nature of the affliction, the likelihood of the royal archives' preserving documentation of the event seems most unlikely. But the unlikely may have occurred! A recently published Babylonian cuneiform text seems to shatter the silence about Nebuchadnezzar's illness. The tablet is in the British Museum, No. BM 34113 (sp 213), and was published by A. K. Grayson in 1975.4 Unfortunately, it is merely a fragment, and the surviving text is not as clear as we would like it to be. But the lines that may refer to the king's illness are exciting nevertheless:
2 [Nebu]chadnezzar considered
3 His life appeared of no value to [him, ......]
5 And (the) Babylon(ian) speaks bad counsel to Evil-merodach [....]
6 Then he gives an entirely different order but [. . .]
7 He does not heed the word from his lips, the cour[tier(s) - - -]
11 He does not show love to son and daughter [. . .]
12 ... family and clan do not exist [. . .]
14 His attention was not directed towards promoting the welfare of Esagil [and Babylon]
16 He prays to the lord of lords, he raised [his hands (in supplication) (. . .)]
17 He weeps bitterly to Marduk, the g[reat] gods [......]
18 His prayers go forth to [......]
Let's attempt to decipher the text. Brackets [ ] indicate which words or letters are broken from the original tablet and have been supplied by the translator. Words or letters in parentheses ( ) are supplied by the translator for better understanding of the English rendering. The numerals preceding the lines of text indicate which lines of the tablet are quoted. The missing lines are either too badly preserved to make sense or not understandable, and therefore make no contribution to a better understanding of the text as a whole. The end of every line is missing and the beginnings of lines 2 and 12 are broken off—though there is no doubt that the reconstruction of the beginning of line 2 is correct. Evilmerodach of line 5 was the eldest son of Nebuchadnezzar and his successor on the throne. He is mentioned in the Bible as having re leased King Jehoiachin of Judah from prison after his accession to the throne (2 Kings 25:27-30; Jer. 52:31-34). Esagil in line 14 is the name of the principal temple complex of Babylon, in which the ziggurat, a 300-foot high temple tower, stood. The temple was dedicated to the chief god, Marduk, mentioned in line 17 of the tablet.
The text definitely refers to Nebuchadnezzar in lines 2 and 3, but it is not certain to whom lines 6 and on refer. Professor Grayson, editor of the tablet, suggests that "the main theme seems to be the improper behavior of Evil-merodach, particularly with regard to Esagil, followed by a sudden and unexplained change of heart and prayers of Marduk." However, another interpretation of the poorly preserved text seems plausible, especially if read in the light of Daniel 4, which relates Nebuchadnezzar's seven-year period of mental derangement.
Read lines 3, 6, 7, 11, 12, and Mas referring to strange behavior by Nebuchadnezzar, which has been brought to the attention of Evilmerodach by state officials. Life had lost all value to Nebuchadnezzar, who gave contradictory orders, re fused to accept the counsel of his courtiers, showed love neither to son nor daughter, neglected his family, and no longer performed his duties as head of state with regard to the Babylonian state religion and its principal temple. Line 5, then, can refer to officials who, bewildered by the king's behavior, counseled Evilmerodach to assume responsibility for affairs of state so long as his father was unable to carry out his duties. Lines 6 and on would then be a description of Nebuchadnezzar's behavior as described to Evilmerodach. Since Nebuchadnezzar later recovered (Dan. 4:36), the counsel of the king's courtiers to Evil-merodach may later have been considered "bad" (line 5), though at the time it seemed the best way out of a national crisis.
Since Daniel records that Nebuchadnezzar was "driven from men" (Dan. 4:33) but later reinstated as king by his officials (verse 36), Evilmerodach, Nebuchadnezzar's eldest son, may have served as regent during his father's incapacity. Official records, however, show Nebuchadnezzar as king during his lifetime.
It is regrettable that this extremely important text has come down to us in such a fragmentary condition. But we can be grateful that at least a portion of it has been preserved, since it seems to shed light on a Biblical narrative otherwise un-vindicated by extra-Biblical documentation."
Also found this, with no date I can find:  http://www.biblehistory.net/newsletter/nebuchadnezzar.htm
"
GOD reigns Supreme.
      Actual Babylonian records from Nebuchadnezzar himself, also record the seven seasons period of his insanity:
      "For four years my kingdom in the city . .  .gave  me no joy. During this time, not one building of any importance did I issue to be built; the precious treasures of my kingdom I did not lay out . . . I did not sing praises to Merodach, my god, nor did I provide his sacrificial table with offerings, nor did I clean any of the waterways."
 

      Note: In Babylon they counted only two seasons, Summer and Winter. Thus (7 seasons) equals 3 1/2 years. And Nebuchadnezzar stated he did not delight in his kingdom for 4 years. Wow!
 

     Another inscription located in the British Museum may also record his insanity, and his effort to humble himself in prayer before the false god whom he worshiped, not yet knowing the one true God worshiped by Daniel. The artifact states:
       "[Nebu]chadnezzar considered His life which appeared of no value to [him, ......]
And (the) Babylon(ian) speaks bad counsel to (his son ) Evil-merodach [....]
Then he gives an entirely different order but [. . .]
He (his son) does not heed the word from his lips, no do his cour[tier(s) - - -]
He does not show love to son and daughter [. . .]
... his family and clan do not exist [. . .]
His attention was not directed towards promoting the welfare of Esagil [and Babylon]
He prays to the lord of lords, he raised [his hands (in supplication) (. . .)]
He weeps bitterly to Marduk, the g[reat] gods [......]
His prayers go forth to [......]  BM34113"

Move of the same, including an artists depiction of the curse:    https://biblereadingarcheology.com/2017/09/25/the-madness-of-king-nebuchadnezzar/




The writing on the wall.  Did Belshazzar's kingdom fall overnight?  Surprise attack?

It was Darius that threw Daniel in the lions' den.  Does the decree that followed survive?

Much could be researched on this subject.

Daniel remained faithful in the face of every temptation there is.  His position made anything he wanted available to him at a word.  He had the week to abstain.

He was also faced with dying horribly for maintaining this faith.  I expect he jumped into the lions' den.  

He is mentioned with high regard in Ezekiel 14, in company with Noah and Job.  Ezekiel wrote concurrently with Daniel.  So Daniel's name must have been very widespread.  Ezekiel was at the river Chebar and Daniel was in the palace in Babylon.
Job was faithful in the face of overwhelming adversity and personal loss.
Noah in the face of worldwide ridicule.
Daniel despite unlimited temptation.

Not sure if this is the way to go with this, since the passages in Eze 14 are about individual responsibility, not faithfulness.  Kind of out of context.  Still, they are listed as some of the most righteous men in history.

Chapter 7
First year of Belshazzar, Nebuchadnezzar's son...so we have gone backwards from Darius and the Medes to the King before that.  MSB says a flashback to 553 BC, 14 years before the handwriting on the wall and the feast.  7,8 really come after 4 but before 5.

Daniel has a vision while in his bed and writes it down.  Four beasts come up out of the sea.  This sea would be the Gentiles I believe, in this case, not "politics".  First, a lion with eagles wings.  Wings were plucked and then it stood on two feet.  Second is a bear.  Had three ribs in its mouth.  It was told to devour much flesh.  Third, a leopard with four wings.  This one has four heads and is given dominion.  Fourth, a beast terrifying, dreadful, and exceedingly strong.  Very destructive of things in that it "broke in pieces and stamped and stamped what was left.  Different from all the others that came first.  It had 10 horns.  Then another horn - small - comes up, and pulls three of the original horns up by the roots.  This horn has eyes like the eyes of a man and a mouth "speaking great things".

2022 - All these 2022 notes are based on the Judgment study.  I am still going to try and fill them in here, verse by verse as I go, because I am already seeing more here than I did during the Judgment study.
Vs 2, Four winds of heaven stirring up the sea.  This tells us that Daniel's vision is of the spiritual world, not the world of men.  The winds are about contention in heaven between Lucifer and God and Christ.  Lucifer has recruited some very powerful angels to his service, and one at a time, he runs them at the earth.  Each of the four beasts is an angelic follower of Satan, sent as "overlord" or "warlord" who is charged with overthrowing, extinguishing, or undoing God's redemptive plan on earth, because if that can be accomplished, then Lucifer can avoid the fate that is in store for him.  The sea is where spiritual beings come from.  And so the future, so far as the spiritual realm, is now laid out.  
2022-2, 5/17, as I get back to the judgment study.  I believe Daniel's vision is of events on earth, of future earthly events.  Perhaps I am right about the symbolism of the winds stirring up the sea - the source of angels - perhaps not.  But the beasts are angels.  
First beast - wings plucked, raised up onto two feet.  Remember this is an angel.  Wings plucked might mean his immortal attributes were removed, and he changed from a creature who looks similar to the great dragon to a creature who looked like a man.  He was perhaps "demoted" by Satan into this other form.  Perhaps Satan saw this as a new strategy.  An angel in man's clothing.  Perhaps too this is why Neb is so often called God's servant, God's man.  Perhaps when this angel became a man, he was far more subject to the will of God, could no longer follow Satan's commands independently of God's wishes.  Maybe this is why Neb was so very powerful.  What a complete and total refutation by God of the strategy Satan employed with the first beast.  Note that it never says anything like this happened again.  Hmm....if we go with this, then when Neb is turned to a wild animal, he is described as "ate grass like an ox, and his body was wet with the dew of heaven till his hair grew as long as eagle's feathers, and his nails were like birds claws".  Sounds a bit similar to a great red dragon, but not as powerful doesn't it?  As Satan had turned an angel to a man to rule the world, God turns a man into a beast that looks like the original angel as a way of humbling this thing before him.  So that this man who was a beast chooses to honor God, and not Satan.  What a monumental mistake in judgment this was for Satan.

Second beast - We would expect Satan to try something very different with this beast.  Like a bear this time, but raised up on one side?  One side in the realm of men, one side still in the spiritual realm?  No, probably not.  We also think the ram with two horns - one bigger than the other, is about the Medes and Persians, who had two kings, but one of them was more powerful than the other.  That's what this might mean - remembering that what is happening on earth under the reign of this beast will reflect what is happening spiritually.  Could it be that Lucifer decided to put two angels in charge with this new strategy, giving one greater authority than the other?  Three ribs in its mouth?  The Medo-Persians conquered Babylon, Medea, and Persia perhaps?  It was a larger empire than Babylon alone had been, and ruled heavily over these three kingdoms.  These three kingdoms might have been subservient to the King of the Medes and the King of the Persians - three still lesser beasts, not mentioned specifically.  Devour much flesh?  Perhaps this was a very brutal, very violent, very bloody kingdom.  I do not know enough about it to say.

Third beast - Leopard, with four birds wings.  This one has four heads.  Last one also represented as a Ram with two horns.  Perhaps this time we have four angels trying to get it right?  Each angel has a territory.  All are combined under one kingdom, with one ruler - corresponding to Alexander - but when the earthly counterpart dies, perhaps what really happened is that the four heads combine and overcome the one to whom they'd answered?  When Alexanders kingdom broke apart, indeed, four kings arose.  From those, we have the ever smaller, ever less powerful nations, right down to the present time.  After 3 strikes, Satan did not try world conquest again as a way to overcome the angels of God and His plan for mankind.  He has given up until the fourth beast.  Much about the fourth beast in the Judgment study.  Not going into it here.  Running out of time.
2022-2, The four wings are the four parts of the Kingdom of Alexander the great.   That's all they symbolize, as the ribs were a symbol of Medes, Persians, and Babylonians.  Or maybe Medes, Persians, and the west.  My guess is that the Medo-Persian Kingdom had three administrative regions, and that either the Medes or Persians was the stronger part of the kingdom by a good margin.  So these first three are the history of the world from the Babylonian captivity to the break-up of the Kingdom of Alexander - which would have been roughly about 350 BC.  From there, there was never really another kingdom like those that came before.  This is saying that the Romans were not ruled by a beast "assembled" and sent by Satan to dominate the world.  He tried three times and failed three times, and now, during the church age, he waits.  Hitler then, was not a beast.  

2020 - I feel sure that last beast is the Antichrist.  Also sure the leopard is Alexander the Great.  So straight from Alex to end times.  No Rome, no Hitler.  Unless A-E is a near version of AC, and this will ALL repeat?

2022-2, The description of the fourth beast and his kingdom:
"7 After this I saw in the night visions, and behold, a fourth beast, terrifying and dreadful and exceedingly strong. It had great iron teeth; it devoured and broke in pieces and stamped what was left with its feet. It was different from all the beasts that were before it, and it had ten horns. 8 I considered the horns, and behold, there came up among them another horn, a little one, before which three of the first horns were plucked up by the roots. And behold, in this horn were eyes like the eyes of a man, and a mouth speaking great things." [Dan 7:7-8 ESV]
2022-2, In Daniel, the fourth beast rises from the sea.  In Rev 13:1, the beast rises from the sea.  Both beasts have 10 horns.  I think this unarguably ties Dan 7:7-8 to Rev 13.  These two are about the same beast.  We know from Rev that the 7 seals are all opened before Rev 13, so the appearance of this beast comes during/after those seals.  This beast establishes a world with 10 kingdoms/nations.  This is all accomplished, and somehow this beast rules the 10 nations.  But then...the 11th horn rises.  The horns are men.  Earthly rulers.  An 11th arises and "plucks up by the roots" three of the previous horns.  Surely this means they are killed, removed completely, disappeared.  They are not demoted, they are removed, and this new horn takes over.  There were ten, three are removed leaving 7, and this new horn rules over the consolidated 8th.  This little horn is characterized by eyes like a man's eyes and a mouth speaking great things.  Perhaps this speaks to great discernment and great persuasion.  He sees through intrigue and he draws loyalty to himself.

All these references from Revelation to seven heads with ten horns.  
3 And another sign appeared in heaven: behold, a great red dragon, with seven heads and ten horns, and on his heads seven diadems. [Rev 12:3 ESV]
1 And I saw a beast rising out of the sea, with ten horns and seven heads, with ten diadems on its horns and blasphemous names on its heads. [Rev 13:1 ESV]
3 And he carried me away in the Spirit into a wilderness, and I saw a woman sitting on a scarlet beast that was full of blasphemous names, and it had seven heads and ten horns. ... 7 But the angel said to me, "Why do you marvel? I will tell you the mystery of the woman, and of the beast with seven heads and ten horns that carries her. ... 9 This calls for a mind with wisdom: the seven heads are seven mountains on which the woman is seated; [Rev 17:3, 7, 9 ESV]
So...A pretty good idea who this fourth beast is.  MSB says the fourth is Rome, eventually broken apart and becoming Europe.  Someday it will be restored under 10 kings and then the Antichrist will arise and take it over.  This is all MSB.  I think Daniel covers Rome under the leopard, which breaks up into four kingdoms, one of which eventually becomes Rome, another Egypt, and all that Antony and Cleopatra stuff.  More of the same, until end times.

Then a new scene is set.  A different vision, sequel to the four beasts.  After them.  Thrones are set up, and the Ancient of Days took his seat.  I believe Ancient of Days is a reference to God Himself.  His throne is fiery flame, its "wheels" burning fire.  NASB also says wheels.  So does NKJV.  These verses:
10 A stream of fire issued and came out from before him; a thousand thousands served him, and ten thousand times ten thousand stood before him; the court sat in judgment, and the books were opened. [Dan 7:10 ESV]  Angels serve him.  This appears to be a picture of the second death.  Here is a similar picture of the Great White Throne Judgement, at the end of the Millennial:
12 And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Then another book was opened, which is the book of life. And the dead were judged by what was written in the books, according to what they had done. [Rev 20:12 ESV]

2022 - I spent a lot of time on this in the judgment study.  Reading it now...I'm not sure I have any of it right.  Perhaps...oh my!!!!...Is this the bema seat judgment, in heaven, in the spiritual realm, right after the rapture!!!???  It could be!  The fire is there to test the works.  The books are there to say "Yes, though he has no reward, his name is here".  The dead here are the resurrected dead!  The scene is heaven, not earth, where the S&G and the GWT will take place.  In Rom 14:10 it is ho bema ho theos.  And that certainly correlates to this scene in Daniel.  Why would Paul refer to the same scene as ho bema ho Christos in 2Co 5:10?  If I can work out wh....In Romans, Paul was envisioning the scene as it takes place in heaven, spiritually.  In 2Co, he is seeing it as the judgment of mankind.

Could be...if the visions are taken as chronological, this judgement will take place after the kingdom of AC is gone.  But is it Great White Throne or sheep and goats?  I think maybe, on 2/1/22, I finally  have my answer, I have the scene of the judgment of believers for their works, I see where it is, and chronologically when it is. I think I have found it!

Still 2022 - This is incredible, now that I see it.  Notice in 7:8 that there is a mouth speaking great things.  This is the last ruler on earth, proclaiming himself God.  When he does this, we know from Thess, that the rapture will occur.  This man will be recognized - by his words! - and then the church will be raptured out.  Right after that, the raptured will be judged in heaven.  It fits perfectly, right down to the supernatural fire that will try the works done in his name.  Then next, in vss 11, 12, Christ will defeat this beast at his second coming, and Satan and his earthly demonic and human forces will be shut away for a thousand years.  It matches right up.

2022-2, I think this is pretty clear now.  We have the appearance, in Dan 7:8, of the Son of Perdition, the Man of Lawlessness.  I am hesitant to call him Antichrist for the reasons Bobby Kelly gave us.  This is the one speaking great things.  He will be the one who deposes three rulers.  This will be a public event.  These verses:   "3 Let no one deceive you in any way. For that day will not come, unless the rebellion comes first, and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of destruction, 4 who opposes and exalts himself against every so-called god or object of worship, so that he takes his seat in the temple of God, proclaiming himself to be God." [2Th 2:3-4 ESV].  This rebellion may be an uprising against the regions where the three kings rule.  They may be particularly heinous, and the man of lawlessness promises leniency and peace.  OR, these three may be trying to maintain Christianity and/or Judaism and keep it safe, and that is the twisted justification of the M of L.  In any case, it seems to me that he will lead a revolt.  This will NOT be a worldwide apostasy, but a local revolt that puts the M of L on the seat of power, from which he will ultimately rule the planet.  We know from Mark/Matthew/Luke that once he is on the throne, a time of great persecution will come, and it will be shortened by the rapture.  So all this comes together here.  All these verses.  And then, the raptured will be judged before theos at the throne of heaven.  Those books have our deeds in them.  That is not THE book of life, because if you were raptured, your salvation is a given.  It's the book of deeds.  I think it has ALL our deeds, both good and evil.  Reward will be increased by the good, decreased by the sins.  They will count for the rewards, but they will not count for condemnation.  "1 There is therefore now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus." [Rom 8:1 ESV].  What condemns us?  Our sins, if we are not in Christ.  Nothing at all can condemn us if we are in him.  
The so-called, very inappropriately named bema judgment is the bema ho theos.  The saved will be judged by the Ancient of Days, not by the Son.
In Revelation, we see this same scene here:  "9 After this I looked, and behold, a great multitude that no one could number, from every nation, from all tribes and peoples and languages, standing before the throne and before the Lamb, clothed in white robes, with palm branches in their hands, 10 and crying out with a loud voice, "Salvation belongs to our God who sits on the throne, and to the Lamb!"" [Rev 7:9-10 ESV].  NOTICE that the throne and the Lamb are mentioned as separate.  There is a throne, on which God will be sitting, and the Lamb will be right there.  What is described in Revelation 7 is the scene immediately after that judgment, and those saved who are killed during the great persecution of the M of L and those who did manage to survive to the rapture, are given special honor.  
I think this is SOLID to right here.  But then what does the rest mean?

vs 11...A continuation, or a look back?
2022 - Continuation
11 "I looked then because of the sound of the great words that the horn was speaking. And as I looked, the beast was killed, and its body destroyed and given over to be burned with fire. 12 As for the rest of the beasts, their dominion was taken away, but their lives were prolonged for a season and a time. [Dan 7:11-12 ESV]
(2022 - The beast destroyed is the beast from the sea. This is the death of an angel.  This is why the body must be burned.  It won't decay.)
2022-2, Vss 11, 12 summarize the rest of the seven years.  Down through 10 gets us past the rapture and the judgment of those in Christ.  Here is a problem though...would Daniel, who was an OT prophet and didn't really understand the church age, give us this kind of detail about the bema seat if ONLY church age souls will be there?  Or is his inclusion of this judgment a proof text that OT saints will also be raptured, and perhaps that accounts for the huge numbers that will be present?
2022-2, So what do we see in 11,12?  First, the horn continues to speak.  The rapture does NOT come at the end of the 7 years, because the M of L continues to do his thing AFTER the rapture.  Things go on, as Revelation tells us.  The horn is speaking until the beast is killed.  What beast is killed?  Here is what happens at the second coming:
"19 And I saw the beast and the kings of the earth with their armies gathered to make war against him who was sitting on the horse and against his army. 20 And the beast was captured, and with it the false prophet who in its presence had done the signs by which he deceived those who had received the mark of the beast and those who worshiped its image. These two were thrown alive into the lake of fire that burns with sulfur." [Rev 19:19-20 ESV].  So I don't think Daniel is telling us about this.  No beast is killed in Rev 19.  UNLESS John is telling us here about the beasts from the earth, which are in fact men.
A possibility is that Daniel is here speaking about the fourth beast, from the sea, that we saw earlier.  We know that the fourth beast represents a fourth strategy of Satan to overcome the Lamb.  The first three failed, and now this one also fails.  And this one sent so far that rather than being merely defeated, this angel is put to death.  This fourth beast - an immortal angel - is killed, showing all the rest of the evil angels just how much more powerful than Satan is the God of heaven.  The beast from the sea is killed, and the two beasts from the earth are thrown alive into hell.

These verses from Revelation are, in my opinion, the beast referred to:
1 And I saw a beast rising out of the sea, with ten horns and seven heads, with ten diadems on its horns and blasphemous names on its heads. 2 And the beast that I saw was like a leopard; its feet were like a bear's, and its mouth was like a lion's mouth. And to it the dragon gave his power and his throne and great authority. [Rev 13:1-2 ESV]
But the false prophet is also called a beast.  (beasts of the earth vs beasts of the sea.  This is how the confusion can be unraveled.)
And at the end of the pre-Millennial battle, there is this:
20 And the beast was captured, and with it the false prophet who in its presence had done the signs by which he deceived those who had received the mark of the beast and those who worshiped its image. These two were thrown alive into the lake of fire that burns with sulfur. [Rev 19:20 ESV]
This verse says "thrown alive into the lake", so NOT the same reference as Dan 7.11, where the beast was killed.  
Could be the man, Antichrist, killed and his soul thrown into hell.  This verse:
8 And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord Jesus will kill with the breath of his mouth and bring to nothing by the appearance of his coming. [2Th 2:8 ESV]  The man, the final Antichrist, will be killed by the Lord Jesus.  He will die.  
The beasts lives were prolonged...so during the Millennial, those who oppose Christ and his Kingdom will persist, but they won't have any power.  Until at the end of the Millenial, and then the final battle.  Or...is this the first battle...or both, telescoped together.
Getting way bogged down on this one spot.  Continue....
2020-I really don't understand verses 11, 12.  The beast killed almost has to be the human Antichrist, but not Satan who possesses him.  Satan will abandon that man.  Perhaps there were also beasts in charge of the Chaldeans, the Medo-Persians, and the Greeks, defeated but still marking time?  Or perhaps these kingdoms will all come again before the end and the second time with demonic help?  How long is a season and a time?
2022 - In the section above, you have to keep straight whether we are talking about a beast from the sea or a beast from the earth.  It all straightens itself out in that way.  These verses in Daniel are still moving through the book of Revelation chronologically.  

2022-2, Dan 7:12.  The "rest" of the beasts lose their dominion.  Since vs 11 was speaking of a beast from the sea, the fourth beast, that dies, I think we must read this verse as talking about other angels of Satan.  Other evil beasts from the sea.  Perhaps this is about the seven spiritual dominions.  The fourth beast was given power over all seven, with 10 subsets.  When the fourth beast dies, the demons who served him are also defeated, removed.  It is these who are removed by theos.  Then....

Vs 13 is a vision, still of that throne with the Ancient of Days seated.  Authority is given to one like a son of man.  His dominion is everlasting.  This is Jesus.
2022 - Vss 13 and 14 show God handing over dominion to Jesus, who will then come to earth, after the earthly ruler has ruled another 3 1/2 years or so, and wipe him out, and establish his kingdom on earth.  There is no discrepancy  here.  It finally all fits together, as I KNEW IT MUST!!!  While there may truly be mysteries yet to be revealed in the Word, I think more often we just fail to dig out what is already revealed!  This is it.  This is what I have been looking for since last November.  Three judgments, 1 in heaven, 2 on the earth.  Why would I not have expected 3!?!?!?

2022-2, Dan 7:13,14 correspond precisely to this verse:  "15 Then the seventh angel sounded: And there were loud voices in heaven, saying, "The kingdoms of this world have become [the kingdoms] of our Lord and of His Christ, and He shall reign forever and ever!"" [Rev 11:15 NKJV].  This is the seventh trumpet.

2022 - The interpretation for Daniel, is of the earthly events that correspond to what he has seen in his vision of the spiritual.  But this verse:
17 'These four great beasts are four kings who shall arise out of the earth. [Dan 7:17 ESV]
For each beast seen in heaven, there will be a corresponding king on the earth.  But they'll all lose, and Christ will win.  This is a very succinct interpretation that Daniel receives.

2020-Is this at his resurrection and ascension, or just before the second advent?  Note the description of His kingdom, and how closely it matches the bookends Neb uses around his story.  Use of that same phrasing makes God and Christ the very same.

Ahh...should have been patient.  Daniel approaches one who stands there and asks what all this is about, and he gets an answer.  

The four beasts are four kings - who arise from earth.  Lucifer is from heaven.  They will be overcome by the saints of the Most High, and he will receive this Kingdom, and rule it forever.  2020-Alexander was not defeated by saints?  (2022 - Separate the spiritual from the earthly, and it makes sense!)  So...future still?  Battles during trib and great trib?  Beasts supporting kingdoms ruled by horns?  No....not if beasts are kings who arise from earth...
2022-2, The angel is clearly talking about men.  The beasts from the earth are powerful men who become kings on earth.  These are not like ordinary men.  I believe that the four beasts who arose from the sea in vs 3 are four angels - demonic satanic angels - whose spiritual kingdoms correspond to the earthly kingdoms of the four beasts.  There is a one to one correspondence here between the spiritual kingdom and the earthly.  In the case of these four great earthly kings, it is highly likely that the ambitions of the kings correspond to the ambitions of the demons.  Their purposes combine in a way that allows much conquest, much accomplishment, much assertion of power on the earth.  So in vs 3, Daniel's vision was of things that would take place with respect to the spiritual realm.  But when this angel begins to explain to Daniel what the vision is about, the angel describes the corresponding earthly events - concurrent in time with the spiritual events.  This seems a good way to understand the difference between beasts from the sea and beasts from the earth, yet again.  And I note that John in Revelation also makes this distinction about the source of some of the beasts there.

Daniel asks for more specifics about that fourth beast, different from all the rest.
(((2022 - As Daniel asks his question, he tells us a little more about the vision he had previously.  Particularly, in 21, he tells us the horn made war on the saints and prevailed.  We didn't see that back in vss 7,8, but he tells us about this detail now.  This is about great trib.  What he told us back in 7,8 was about trib, up until the beast is recognized.  And in 21,22, he tells us what will happen during gt, until God gives Jesus dominion, and Jesus comes and conquers not only this beast, but the dragon himself.)))
The explanation in vs 23-27 seems to be that a Kingdom will arise.  It will dominate the whole world.  I would say that the whole world will be under a single government - a tyrannical and destructive government - and this world government will have 10 divisions, each with it's own king, or top official.  AFTER this world government is established, Antichrist will rise, and he will take over three of those 10 divisions.  He will be different, because Satan will possess him.  He will then continue to rise in power, and will begin to speak against the Most High.  His objective will be to change future history and avoid the ultimate fate of Satan and those who follow him.  Antichrist will be trying to bend history to Satan's plan, and to stop the culmination of God's plan.  Truly Satan will here try and overcome the Most High.  This is the last 3 1/2 years.  This is great tribulation.  Ultimately, after the battle and events at the end of great trib, and after the Millennial, this beast will receive judgement also, at the Great White Throne.  By God's own judgement he will be condemned.  Then the earth will be remade, sin will be gone forever, and we will be with God forever.
(2022 - I think the above paragraph is pretty near correct.  25b describes great tribulation - 3.5 years.  26 is the setting of the scene of the GWT judgment.  27 is "for ever and ever".   So amazing, so precise, so connected without discrepancy.  You have to read it all.  You have to let it sink in.  You have to look again and again.  But eventually, it is all here.)))
2022-2, Daniel asks his question in vss 19,20.  He does not specify whether he is asking about spiritual events or earthly events.  Can we discern it either from the details of his question of from the answer he gets?  Several things indicate that Daniel is asking about the spiritual being.  Men do not have iron teeth and bronze claws.  Men do not have 10 horns on their heads...(Perhaps the horns on the demons head indicate that the demon has "control" of those 10 horns.  Somehow, the horns are earthly kings under the influence of this one demonic spirit.)  
2022-2, Vs 21 seems to be a continuation of the vision from earlier as regards the fourth beast.  It is like the vision continues to advance, even as Daniel speaks to the angel.  Like a movie playing in the background that Daniel can still see.  This vs is about a time during which the "different horn" pursues the saints.  Daniel knew nothing of the church age, so he does not distinguish for us whether this is pursuit of children of the woman - the Jews alive during the 7 years - or of Christians, or of both.  So we have to deduce that in other ways.  I think this verse in Dan 7 references precisely the same time as this vs from Mark:   "19 For in those days there will be such tribulation as has not been from the beginning of the creation that God created until now, and never will be. 20 And if the Lord had not cut short the days, no human being would be saved. But for the sake of the elect, whom he chose, he shortened the days." [Mar 13:19-20 ESV].  I think this is the time between revelation of the M of L and the rapture.  Mark, Luke, and Matthew ALL refer to this time of pursuit that would wipe out humanity if it were not cut short.  But it is cut short by the rapture of the church, but continues with respect to the Jews.  Daniel wouldn't distinguish between them as he had no knowledge of the church age.  The "movie" continues with this verse:
"22 until the Ancient of Days came, and judgment was given for the saints of the Most High, and the time came when the saints possessed the kingdom." [Dan 7:22 ESV].  Here is a difficult interpretation.  The rapture will see Jesus return and wait in the clouds as the saved go up to meet him in the air.  Jesus, not the Ancient of Days.  So is this just Daniel, unaware of the Trinity, referring to the one who comes as God?  It could be that.  The judgment that occurs - the bema judgment at ho bema ho theos - will be before God the Father, as the original vision showed in vs 9.  The detailed physical description there is of the Father.  Hmm...if this is the movie continuing, then that judgment is past, and this appearance of the Father and the judgment here could be either the pre-Millennial or the GWT.  The saints first possess the kingdom at the Millennial.  But it is Jesus on the throne at the Millennial isn't it?  Or is it?  This verse:  "31 "When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, then he will sit on his glorious throne." [Mat 25:31 ESV].  This is at the sheep and goat judgment, and it is clearly Jesus on the throne of judgment.  Perhaps ho bema ho christos.  This is a judgment of works.  Books are opened.  But the THE book is not mentioned.  In that sense, this would be another look at ho bema ho theos.
Maybe...since in vss 13,14 dominion is given to one like a son of man, Daniel is in fact aware that there are two.  He knows the Father when he sees Him in vision, and the two judgments Daniel describes are both conducted with the Father as Judge.  And since we know from Mat 25:31 that it will be Jesus judging at the Sheep and Goat, the scene in 7:22 is indeed the GWT, the absolute and final judgment of all, after which the saints will rule and reign with Christ forever.
2022-2, Then in vs 23, we return to Daniel's present, and to the angel answering Daniel's question about the fourth beast.  Vss 23-25, contextually, are a description of events on earth.  This is consistent with the first part of the angel's answer about the fourth beast.  The angel tells us that 10 kings - earthly heads - will rule the earth, and into that mix will come this very different kind of man, before whom three will fall.  Vs 25 tells us that this is the M of L, that he will declare himself to be God, and he will have a strategy that seeks to change the end of time - to bring about an outcome different than what God has planned.  For 3.5 years he will be in charge, with almost limitless power over the earth, and will use it to pursue first both Christian and Jew, and after the rapture, he will continue to try and kill ALL the Jews.  Then this verse:
"26 But the court shall sit in judgment, and his dominion shall be taken away, to be consumed and destroyed to the end." [Dan 7:26 ESV].  The M of L loses his dominion at the end of the 7.  So this angelic description is of the Sheep and Goat judgment, where the M 0f L is thrown alive into the lake of fire.  This verse in Daniel corresponds to this verse in Revelation:  "20 And the beast was captured, and with it the false prophet who in its presence had done the signs by which he deceived those who had received the mark of the beast and those who worshiped its image. These two were thrown alive into the lake of fire that burns with sulfur." [Rev 19:20 ESV].  This occurs when Christ returns with his army.  This is strictly about the Sheep and Goat.  Then this summary by the angel:
"27 And the kingdom and the dominion and the greatness of the kingdoms under the whole heaven shall be given to the people of the saints of the Most High; his kingdom shall be an everlasting kingdom, and all dominions shall serve and obey him.'" [Dan 7:27 ESV].  Once Christ is on this throne, he is never unseated, never deposed, never usurped, and never seriously challenged.

So the only question that remains is, why, after all this, is it the Father who judges on the GWT?  In Revelation, John does not describe the one seated on the GWT.  He sees him, but does not describe him.  Only this angel in Daniel 7 tells us that he is the Ancient of Days, and we have built a case that this is the GWT judgment, and to me it is the only interpretation that fits chronologically, but I cannot be positive about it.
You would think, though, that since Yahweh delivered the Ten in person to Israel, and they heard His voice, that at the GWT, when they are all judged, it would be the Ancient of Days that judged.  It was His direct commandments that they were given, and  this judgment will be for breaking those commandments.  In that sense, it all fits.

What's new here for me is the rise of a world government that will be taken over by Antichrist, not formed by him in the first place.  He won't pull it all together, he will rise to power through it.

All this alarms Daniel greatly, such that his "color changes".  I would say he is pale and weak and fearful.

 

Chapter 8
Three years later, another vision.  This vision is very specific as to geography.  He is in Susa, in the province of Elam, at the Ulai canal.  He sees a ram with two horns, both high, but one higher than the other.  The ram charges North, West, and South.  None can stand before it.  (This is the Medo-Persian empire rising.)  
A goat with one horn attacks the ram with two.  The goat breaks the two horns, and none can oppose the goat.  But eventually, the goat's horn also breaks, and then four little horns come up instead of the one.  This is obviously about Alexander the great, and the division of his territory into four sub-kingdoms after his death.

2022 - Daniel is on one bank of the river, and the ram with the two horns is on the other bank.  This placement tells us that these visions represent men.  We are not looking now at the spiritual world, as we did in the chapter 7 vision, but now we are looking at what events here below will look like during the same period.  That makes it stand to reason that we will see a pretty obvious - though likely  not perfect - correspondence between the visions of 7 and 8, but not necessarily all the way back to Neb's own vision of the statue.
2022 - Here is what it looks like to me know.  Neb saw the world-dominating empires of the future.  His vision included the age of the Gentiles down at the feet, with iron and clay, too many nations, too many kingdoms to list separately.  The mongrel age that we are now experiencing.  Then Daniel's first vision in Dan 7, which I think we've shown is about the demonic warlords assigned by Satan to thwart God's plans.  Each evil in its own way, but each exemplifying a different underlying strategy.  All unsuccessful.  Then Daniels vision in Dan 8, which is the earthly view of these same four kingdoms.  It is noteworthy that there is no "human counterpart" to the beast that is Nebuchadnezzar.  I think this corroborates the idea that Neb was angel turned to man, and so one vision serves both purposes.  This surely seems like a profound correlation.

2022 - This verse:
8 Then the goat became exceedingly great, but when he was strong, the great horn was broken, and instead of it there came up four conspicuous horns toward the four winds of heaven. [Dan 8:8 ESV]
The animal becoming great means that nation expanded, and became a world power.  The horn here obviously represents a "King".  A broken horn is a dead king.  This principal applies here, and would surely be well known to John in Revelation, and he would likely use - be given the same clues in his visions - as were in use in Daniel.  Four "conspicuous" horns?  Interlinear says this means conspicuous in appearance.  None of these four were descended from Alexander, so there is no reason that they might have looked alike.  I suspect that most likely they all looked very different from each other.  Racially?  Who were the four?  What were their names?  
They were Ptolemy I Soter who ruled Levant and Egypt, Seleucus I Nicator who ruled Mesopotamia and Iran, Cassander who ruled Greece, and Lysimachus who ruled Thrace.  I found several images of all but Cassander.  I saw nothing particularly conspicuous about them.  It might be worthwhile to see where each was from.  However, I think in this case, they might well have been conspicuous for their bravery or skill in battle or leadership.  These were not ordinary men, but the successors of Alexander the Great.

From one of the four horns comes a little horn, which grows exceedingly great toward the south, east, and toward the glorious land.  This verse describes that little horn:
9 Out of one of them came a little horn, which grew exceedingly great toward the south, toward the east, and toward the glorious land. 10 It grew great, even to the host of heaven. And some of the host and some of the stars it threw down to the ground and trampled on them. [Dan 8:9-10 ESV]
This almost has to be Egypt in the south.  They did rise against Rome but were defeated   So all still future???  Hmm...reading on, if near/far, the south is about AE and about the final AC.  Where was AE from?  Did he consolidate his power from a southern base of support?

2022 - South, east and toward the glorious land (which is what?) from where?  It just says out of one of them, it doesn't say which one?  MSB note says the little horn is Antiochus Epiphanies, presumably the first one.  He came to rule Syria, and in this case the glorious land must mean Israel.  What though, would be meant by stars?  Host apparently means "host of heaven".  Is the implication that this "man" was able to conquer angels?  How would he even see them?  MSB says he will have a much longer explanation of AE when we get to 11:2-35...which thankfully is not today!  I am moving on along.  Time to speed this up.  
I wish I was speeding up!  This verse:
11 It became great, even as great as the Prince of the host. And the regular burnt offering was taken away from him, and the place of his sanctuary was overthrown. 12 And a host will be given over to it together with the regular burnt offering because of transgression, and it will throw truth to the ground, and it will act and prosper. [Dan 8:11-12 ESV]  These two verses, I think, make it very clear that we have moved into near/far territory.  The Prince of the host is Michael, I would think...MSB says no...MSB notes are not much help.  I am too tired to dig deep.  I do not want to put off the rest of Daniel for another year, but I just do not have it today.  It makes sense to do a separate study of these visions before undertaking an end times study in detail.  So I finish judgment, then Daniel 7-??, then End times.  

Hope there will be an interpretation.  This seems to say that the little horn is powerful not just on earth, but in heaven, to the point of defeating some of the angels and trampling on them.  
2023 - There might be a key here...If this is a near/far prophecy, then these confusing descriptions like "grew great to the host of heaven" - possibly meaning that the MoL in Revelation will receive so much power from the beast from the sea that he can stand toe to toe with angels.  Perhaps that is how  he "throws the host and some stars to the ground and tramples on them".  He is able - because of the power delegated to him - to overcome true angels, to defeat them.  But it does not say kill...It does not say this man can kill immortal creations.  Wow.  Wonder why I never though of these phrases as descriptive primarily of the far fulfillment?  Because today, it makes really good sense of what was previously total confusion.
2023 - It seems to me that it is in vs 9 that we switch over from near term events to end time events.  In vs 10 especially, I think it is clear that we are talking about the MoL.
2023 - In vs. 11, we need to determine what is meant by the removal of the regular burnt offering from the Prince of the Host, and the overthrow of the place of his sanctuary.  We might speculate  - and I don't see anything else we can do - that as tgt begins, the temple has been restored, or some place has been designated as the place to resume the sacrifice.  This appears to have been a triumph of the prince of the host, but is hotly contested by Satan's forces.  So when this ultra-powerful MoL comes to power, he is able not only to stop the sacrifices in this "new location", but to physically, perhaps militarily, capture that area.  If we continue down this line, it would have required a significantly numerous group of Orthodox Jews - Jews who wanted their temple back in operation - to become powerful enough to rebuild the temple - or establish it somewhere.  We could assume Jerusalem but it hasn't told us that.
2023 - Then this verse:
12 And a host will be given over to it together with the regular burnt offering because of transgression, and it will throw truth to the ground, and it will act and prosper. [Dan 8:12 ESV].  The MoL will have angels under his command, and so be able to hold onto the burnt offering by forces both physical and spiritual.  There is an important footnote in the ESV after the word transgression.   The footnote says "Or in an act of rebellion".  Is that correlative to this verse:  3 Let no one deceive you in any way. For that day will not come, unless the rebellion comes first, and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of destruction, [2Th 2:3 ESV]?  Perhaps in seizing power over the new temple and requiring that the offerings be made to him, the church will recognize that the MoL is the one we've mistakenly called "The Antichrist" for so long, and then will begin persecution of the CHURCH, not necessarily the Jews.  So we'd be saying that the MoL will lead a rebellion - a rebellion of Jews - who oppose those Jews who restarted the sacrifice, a civil war kind of thing in Israel herself maybe?  He's made promises to the Jews who help him "restore order" to the sacrifice.  Perhaps those original Jews, now deposed, were highly supported by the church, and so the MoL and those Jews who helped him in rebelling against the sacrifice, now support him strongly in the pursuit of the church because the church praised those who rebuilt the temple.  
I need to stop this.  So much of this is just pure speculation.  What does it actually say?  That the MoL will be a part - the leader - of a rebellion that takes over a temple that exists at that time.  I think it is clear that this rebellion is the same as the one described in 2 Thess.  And after this, the MoL will "act and prosper".  He is going to become exceedingly powerful in the world.
I would tie Dan 8:12, Matt 24:21, and 2 Thess 2:3 are all describing the same events.  But for now, I cannot see where Rev 13 ties into these other three, and I think it must tie for any of this to be correct.  
The biggest problems I have in connecting them are these:
First, 5 And the beast was given a mouth uttering haughty and blasphemous words, and it was allowed to exercise authority for forty-two months. [Rev 13:5 ESV].  I think this beast is immortal - not a man at all, and is in power 3 1/2 years.  This is the beast to whom Satan gives "his power and his throne and great authority".  Note also that all the references about the haughty and blasphemous words being spoken are about this immortal demon, NOT about the MoL.  I think.  (And this I think knocks some pretty big holes in some interpretations I've previously made.  I will need to revise them.  For instance this verse:  Dan 7:8?  It was a little horn with a mouth speaking great things.  So...does that make this little horn and this 42 month immortal the same?   See?  With this new insight I just have a whole new set of problems.)  So that implies that this immortal shows up either on day 1 of tgt or in the exact middle of tgt.  It almost has to be on day 1.  And then I have to say that the head that was wounded but lived is the MoL...but then where do I put the story about the little one getting rid of three others and taking over...How does that all fit?
Second, If this beast only has authority for 3.5 years, and he shows up on day one, who has that authority for the last 3.5 years?  Who comes to power then?  And if he only comes to power in the last half, then who is it - man or immortal - that takes over the sacrifice and makes it stick for 6 years and 140 days?  That time frame transcends the time of this 3.5 year beast.  How can those things be reconciled?
These are really big problems.  So big that it convinces me that I either still do not see something major, or that I have a big "hole" in my understanding to this point.  That would mean I am connecting things that are not connected.  And I'm just drained for right now.  Maybe I can come back to it later today, maybe it will continue to process in my head...maybe the Holy Spirit will show me how it connects.
So.  I seem to have run out of connections.  I did a LOT of work on this today, and I think I have really done a good job connecting the three verses above.  Maybe next year, I can connect Rev 13 to them.
For today, then, I am moving on.  Maybe Gabriel, beginning in vs 15, can help me unravel a bit more as he helped Daniel!

This horn becomes as great as the "Prince of the host".  As great as Jesus???  The burnt offering will be given over to it.  As Antichrist will be worshiped in the Temple.  The abomination of desolation in the Holy Place perhaps.  I think these verses, this question, clarifies it somewhat:
13 Then I heard a holy one speaking, and another holy one said to the one who spoke, "For how long is the vision concerning the regular burnt offering, the transgression that makes desolate, and the giving over of the sanctuary and host to be trampled underfoot?" 14 And he said to me, "For 2,300 evenings and mornings. Then the sanctuary shall be restored to its rightful state." [Dan 8:13-14 ESV]
This looks like the time from when Antichrist breaks the covenant with Israel.  2300 days is 6.3 years of 365 days.  It is 6.5 lunar years.  Or, looking at the info below from Adrian Rogers, 2300/360 is 6.389 years, 6 years, 140 days.  So, where to start counting.  Does this mean Antichrist elevates himself to "god of the temple" at 7 years, 120 days after the start of the Tribulation?  Or does it mean that temple worship will be restored to what it should be 120 days before the end of the 70th week, and during that 3 months will come the final battle?  Antichrist will spend three months trying to "take back" the temple for himself maybe?
2023 - The Prince of the host may well be Michael, MSB notwithstanding.  The MoL could be delegated so much power - remember it comes from Satan through the beast from the sea to the MoL - that he equals archangels in power.  No man could stand before him.  He would have supernatural powers.  The burnt offering given over to it (why do I start using "it" here?  Because a horn is an it?  I am pretty sure now that this little horn is the MoL, and that he is male.)  We know that the MoL will declare himself God and require that the temple sacrifices be made to him.  This also fits then.  
2023 - Vs 14 could mean that the MoL will declare himself god when there are 6 years and 140 days left in tgt.  These verses I think are another description of that time:  21 For then there will be great tribulation, such as has not been from the beginning of the world until now, no, and never will be. 22 And if those days had not been cut short, no human being would be saved. But for the sake of the elect those days will be cut short. [Mat 24:21-22 ESV].  The MoL will declare himself god just over 6 months into the 70th week, into tgt.  His attempt to wipe out all the Jews will begin in earnest on that day.
But...how then can he strike a deal with many after 3 1/2 weeks?  Ahhh....This massive persecution occurs after THE CHURCH recognizes him, and it is the church that will suffer persecution.  He will be unsuccessful because the church will be raptured out before he can "kill" it.  Recognizing that his only remaining avenue to stopping the end times is to eliminate all the Jews, he makes a deal to sucker them in, to gain their trust.  He is as powerful as angels, remember.  He can lie almost as effectively as Satan.  So that whole first half last half thing is specific to the Jews, adn this initial persecution is specific to the church.  That is why Paul told the Thessalonians that they would see the MoL before the rapture.  That message is to the church, not to the Jews.  This too makes really good sense, and uncrosses more seeming contradictions.  Wow.  
2023 - Or it just  means that from the time the sacrifice is taken away, though many players will come and go, the sacrifice is not restored to what it ought to be until the end of tgt.

2020-The time period is very specific and does not seem to lay down over the 7 years of trib and great trib at all.  So it could be solely about Antiochus Epiphanes at this point.  It doesn't always have to be near/far. (No!  See the unraveling in the 2023 note just above!)

(((Gonna have to stop here because I am out of time.  Will come back later in the day...
Came home to Adrian Rogers preaching Daniel.  A "prophetic year" is 360 days.  483 years of 360 days from the going forth of the commandment. j
AD 29, Jesus' prophetic ministry started, 15th year of Tiberius Caesar.  4/6/32 AD.  Jesus enters Jerusalem.  
The 70 weeks...1 week to complete building the temple and the city, 62 weeks to get to Jesus, 1 week for end times.  How amazing is this, to come home to the explanation of the math I was struggling with to a guy explaining it on the radio!)))
2023 - As I read this now, that is only 64 weeks.  We need six more weeks.  Was 62 supposed to be 68?  Pretty much has to be.  See below.  It was seven weeks until the temple, 62 weeks to Jesus.  

In vs 15, the Bible explanation starts.  After the vision is over, Daniel wants to understand, and he sees one who's appearance is like a man.  Then he hears a voice from out in the middle of the Ulai telling Gabriel to explain the vision to Daniel.  Daniel is afraid, but Gabriel tells him this vision is about the time of the end.
2023 - So even though events in Daniel's time are a sort of "preview" of what can and will happen, this vision is really about the end.  So I feel more strongly that the interpretations above are correct.

2022 - This verse:
17 So he came near where I stood. And when he came, I was frightened and fell on my face. But he said to me, "Understand, O son of man, that the vision is for the time of the end." [Dan 8:17 ESV]
Does this mean the whole vision is for the end?  If so, it would seem the end begins after Neb.  But even if it runs this long, that little horn could be referring to AE as much as to the first beast of the earth.  It could also mean that at some point, the vision changes over from near to far.  Maybe, from the rest of the explanation, we can establish where the dividing point is, based on exactly what part(s) of the vision he explains.
Another phrase to get a handle on; "the latter end of the indignation".  When does indignation start?  This surely does sound like it is speaking of the last part of t/gt.
2023 - The above was on the right track, but the 2023 notes above are much better.

Gabriel says this a little later:
19 He said, "Behold, I will make known to you what shall be at the latter end of the indignation, for it refers to the appointed time of the end. [Dan 8:19 ESV]
I wonder if "latter end of the indignation" refers to after the temple is restored but before the end of week 70, or the whole 70th week, as God finally deals justice to the world?
The clue that unlocks this phrase, and indeed unlocks what Gabriel is about to say, is in 9:24.  There we see that the "indignation" is a reference to the indignation and wrath of God stored up for a long time, and then poured out, and STILL pouring as of today, on the nation of Israel because of their sin.  Here, in 19, Gabriel sort of "microscopes in" on what he is about to explain.  He will explain the "latter end of the indignation - the appointed time of the end", which means, I think, t/gt.  But look at how vs 20 starts:  "As for the ram...".  Gabriel is going to lay some groundwork for the explanation of the end first.  It starts with the near future, with this "early indignation".  After he's explained all that, he will get to the meat of the vision.  Vs 23 starts with a different kind of phrase: "And at the latter end...".  This is the same phrase - latter end - that he used back in 19 before he started the preamble of current events.  He's explained all that "near stuff" and is now switching to the latter end.  So the descriptions in 23-26 are not about AE, these are about the latter end - these are about the first beast from the earth, about the beast from the sea that rises after Satan and all his are thrown out of heaven.  23-26 are NOT about AE.  If THIS is the case, then vss 9-14 are also about the latter end of the indignation...but may have also held the line of unfolding history, through the end of 4 successors and then AE after them.  But why is Rome not here?  Was AE a Roman? If so, we could see the vision as the vision up to 70 AD, and the long term extinguishing of Israel as a nation.  Yet even then, the wrath is not spent.  The age of the Gentiles comes in, then when trib starts, the last week of wrath occurs, followed by the fulfillment, the restoration, the renewal - ON BOTH SIDES - of the covenant God made to be their God and for them to be HIS people.  Gabriel explains very cursorily the coming earthly kingdoms, but when he gets to that last guy, who is a preliminary look at what might be expected at the end, he goes in to far more detail.  All of vss 23-26 of Gabriel's explanation is about the little horn, as 9-14 are used to describe him in Daniel's vision.  AE, when he came, was truly devastating to the people of God, singling them out for destruction.  The last AE, during t/gt, will also single them out in like manner.  This is what the vision of chapter 8 is about.
2023 - It seems pretty clear that Gabriel says the ram, the goats, and the four are about events that have now passed.  Medo-Persia, Alexander, the four empires that succeeded Alexander.  But in vs 23, "And at the latter end..." he signals that we are talking about the fourth kingdom, the one not like any of the others.  We are looking at the last week beginning in vs 23.

2020-or the end of Great Tribulation.  Further,  Gabriel says this is about "the appointed time of the end".  But then, be talks about Media Persia and Alexander, who were not far away at all and certainly not the end.  At the end of his explanation, Gabriel says he has explained the vision of the evenings and the mornings.   So that part of the vision having to do with sacrifices ceasing and foreigners in charge of the Temple.  That could certainly be AE, followed by AD 70 as the end.  It clearly was the end of Israel.  Maybe that's what this is really about, same as Matt 24.  The end referred to is AD 70, not Trib and Great Trib.

Gabriel confirms that the ram is Media and Persia  The goat is the King of Greece - Alexander.  Four kingdoms arise after this first one, but not with the same power as the first king.  Alexander's partitioned empire after his death.  It is all pretty clear to here.

Then comes what vs 9 called a little horn that arises from one of the four, going south, east and toward the glorious land.  In those verses, we were almost certainly skipping from Alexander's divided kingdom all the way to the Antichrist - not like the others because Satan gives him his power - who sets himself up in the Temple.  

2022 - The explanation, from vs 20-23, is what we expect.  It is Medo-Persia, and Alexander, and the four kingdoms after him.  So Daniel's vision initially is of the near future, and the state of the world during these soon to come events.  As the four kingdoms ruled by Alexanders successors come to an end - apparently all at about the same time, and apparently as they weaken with the passing of their original, conspicuous kings, this little horn begins to rise.

But in the explanation Gabriel gives, it seems different.  Gabriel says at the latter end of the four kingdoms, another king arises.  He is of "bold face" and understands riddles.  This verse:
24 His power shall be great--but not by his own power; and he shall cause fearful destruction and shall succeed in what he does, and destroy mighty men and the people who are the saints. [Dan 8:24 ESV]
The part about it not being his own power sounds like Antichrist, the same as in vs 9.  

This phrase, from vs 25:
"Without warning he shall destroy many..."  The breaking of the covenant of peace with the Jews, when he sets himself up as a god.  This will be mentioned in Dan. 9, there is a reference in 2 Thess 2 that I think is related.  I just don't remember that Antichrist kills a lot of people when this happens.  Got to be a verse for that though.  This happens right after "in his own mind, he shall become great".  He will rise up even against the Prince of princes.  Antichrist does attempt to defeat Jesus on his second advent, when he comes with his army.  Broken by no human hand - 21 And the rest were slain by the sword that came from the mouth of him who was sitting on the horse, and all the birds were gorged with their flesh. [Rev 19:21 ESV]  This is the battle when Christ comes to set up the Millennial.  It is not the one at the end of the 1000 years.

2023 - This verse:
24 His power shall be great--but not by his own power; and he shall cause fearful destruction and shall succeed in what he does, and destroy mighty men and the people who are the saints. [Dan 8:24 ESV].  This statement about power is true of the first beast from the sea.  His power comes directly from Satan, who delegates pretty much ALL of his power on earth to this beast.  Is this beast different because he is an actual angel walking around on earth?  Is that what is different about this fourth kingdom?  Its ruler presides over both the spiritual and the worldly realms?  
I still cannot resolve the 2600 days of the sacrifice being taken away by SOMEBODY, but the beast only receiving power for 3.5 years.  In the middle, does Satan himself take over?  Beasts can be either men or angels.  How can I tell in these references to beasts which is which?  I though the land and sea thing did it but now not so much.
And in Rev 13, it looks to me this year like the beast that rises out of the earth is the "high priest", not the MoL?  It says "another beast rising out of the earth".  How do we understand this?  Is it a second beast rising out of the earth, and we didn't get any information on the first that rose out of the earth?  Or did he see one rise out of the sea and a second rise from the earth - one from each place?  If it is that first one, John would be assuming we already knew about the first one out of the earth and he doesn't need to tell us about him...
I just do not know.
Later that same day in 2023 -
I got out my copy of the history by Josephus that I got from Dad.  I read the account of Antiochus Epiphanes in there - east to find, easy to read.  Here is what I got out of that reading:  There were some Jews who were anxious to make a deal with Antiochus so that he would leave them alone.  So represented that they wanted to obey the laws of the King, to be like the Greek culture, and they asked to build their own gymnasium- all in exchange for AE letting them alone.  He agrees.  As a VERY interesting side note, these Jews found some surgery that could be done to make it look as if they had never been circumcised.  They did this, because in Greek gymnasiums, everyone was naked.  So it would have been obvious that they were NOT Greek, but were Jews.  So they "reversed" their circumcisions.  Many believe that this was sometimes practiced even in Paul's time, and so he wrote this:  18 Was anyone at the time of his call already circumcised? Let him not seek to remove the marks of circumcision. Was anyone at the time of his call uncircumcised? Let him not seek circumcision. [1Co 7:18 ESV].  Many believe this is a reference back to what these Jews did.  So, back to the story.  What we have here is a peace agreement between the Jews and AE.  There is no date attached to this agreement that I can find in Josephus.  He seems to be VERY clear about dates when he wants to be.  Sometime later, some time greater than two years but I cannot tell how much longer (I am guess about a hear and a half longer), AE gets really greedy, and decides that he wants to loot the Temple.  He "tricks" his way into Jerusalem, and basically captures it without firing a shot - so he gets in there not by military force but by trickery - and first thing he does is kill a lot of people.  Then he loots the temple, takes everything from the Table of Shewbread to the Altar of Burnt offering.  He forbids the Jews to practice Judaism.  Then he builds his own altar, and sacrifices a pig on it.  He demands that alters be build throughout Judea, and that pigs be offered regularly all over the country - and also in the Temple.  The date for this is given to the very day.  I don't remember it exactly but it's precise.  AE also prohibits circumcision of newborn boys on pain of really severe pain.  Crucifixion, and many other abominable tortures he things up - and some refuse to listen to him and he carries through on these awful things.  Time passes.  He finds that his treasury is running short again and goes off to war with Persia, aiming to collect the taxes they haven't paid to replenish his funds.  He leaves Lysias in charge.  The Maccabees come to power under Judah Maccabeus.   There are some exhilarating battles, and ultimately the Jews push out Lysias and all the forces of AE and take their country back.  They re-consecrate the Temple, they put the temple furniture back - doesn't say if it was the old stuff recovered or they made new stuff, and they recommence Jewish worship exactly three years, to the day, after AE had taken it away.  Josephus says this was just as predicted by the Prophet Daniel.
So.  Wow.  Couldn't ask for a much better set of details than that!  This, to me, makes it certain that Daniel is near far.  The near IS, after all, about AE.  I never knew how certain that really was.  I also think this makes the 2600 day cessation of the sacrifices an event that will happen in the last days.  It would also be possible now to argue that the 7 year deal broken half way through was also about AE.  I will need to nail down whether that 3 1/2 stuff is from Daniel or Revelation.  This makes Rev 13 the far fulfillment of Daniel's prophecy.  A LOT more things ought untangle now!!!

2023 - Next morning, before reading 11, 12...I looked back at this chapter to see if what Josephus says about the 3 years during which AE stopped the the sacrifice would unravel some things.  I think, today, that the beginning of vs 9, saying "out of one of these" tells us we are still in the past, after Alexander died.  The four kingdoms arise, and one in THOSE days arises.  This is AE.  I do NOT understand how vs 10 could apply to him, but it surely seems to do so.  Instead of understanding "host of heaven" and "stars" to be about angels, I think it is required that these be preachers, rabbis, NOT prophets because their were none, but there still had to be a remnant even during these days.  Can I find scriptural support for "host of heaven" and "stars" being devout men, and not always angels?  As great as the Prince of the host...who could that have been during this time, if NOT an angel?  The language here is continuous.  That is, it seems to me that it would be a real reach to say somewhere in these verses we are switching from AE in the intertestamentary period to the MoL in the end times.  At least not yet - not through vs 12.  In vs 11, if we are saying that the host is about men, the the Prince of the host, from whom the regular burnt offering was taken, would almost have to be the High Priest of this time.  He is named in Josephus but I don't remember his name.  If we run with this, then the host of heaven might here refer to the priesthood.  Maybe host are Aaronic priests and stars are Levites.  I am almost sure that Josephus says AE killed many priests.  So that connection does hold with the rest of the verses - if I am remembering that correctly.  Even if it is not specifically saying that, AE's actions in spoiling the temple would almost certainly have included "trampling" on those who served there.  How could it not?  This works.
CONFIRMATION of this definition of host of heaven and stars would nail this down, but it is, I think, a pretty strong argument as it is.
2023 - THEN, there is this verse, which I think signals a change:
13 Then I heard a holy one speaking, and another holy one said to the one who spoke, "For how long is the vision concerning the regular burnt offering, the transgression that makes desolate, and the giving over of the sanctuary and host to be trampled underfoot?" [Dan 8:13 ESV].  Now I realize full well that I "want" this next to be what this means, and I realize I may be off.  BUT, it looks to me like our frame of reference has shifted here.  We switch from what Daniel is seeing as vision to a discussion between a couple of angels.  Holy one's anyway.  Hmm...he does not call them "hosts" or stars, but "holy ones".  Maybe this is Daniel's word for angels?  He asks three questions, really:  How long is the vision about the regular burnt offering.  How long is the transgression that makes desolate.   How long will the sanctuary and host (priests?) be trampled underfoot?  Note first that Daniel's vision here - this vision - does not include in any way the transgression that makes desolate.  I think that is in a different vision.  In BOTH visions, would we say that burnt offerings cease?  This vision said nothing about the sanctuary and host being trampled.  What vision speaks of that?  A "host" is talking.  A second "host" asks him a question.  The first "host" says to Daniel - not to the one who asked the question - that it will be 2300 days.
We need next to compare this to the explanation Gabriel gives.  Everything seems in sync down through vs 22.  But again, vs 23, as vs 13, seems to be a break in continuity.  In 13, the break says "then I heard".  13 departs from teh vision.  In 23, the break is "And at the latter end...".  My contention - my interpretation - is that from 23 on we are talking about the MoL, and the things he will do at the LATTER end, not the things Antiochus will do in 150 BC or so.  Need to tie "without warning he shall destroy many" to a verse in Revelation.  "His power shall be great, but not by his OWN power.  This ties to Rev 13 pretty well with the beast from the sea being delegated power from the dragon.  Rising up against the prince of princes though...that seems clearly to be about Jesus.  Antiochus did not do that.  Broken, but not by human hand.  Jesus destroys his army with fire from his mouth.  No hands.  Then a reference, again, to evenings and mornings.  2300 of them.  We know from Josephus that AE took the sacrifice away for something like 3.5 years.  So the 2300 CANNOT be about AE.  It MUST be about the end times.  
There are more things to confirm here, to try and nail this down as a valid interpretation in all respects.  I must make time for that.  But now it is time for today's reading - Chapter 11 - which many say is about the MoL, and that Chapter 8 is all about AE.  


Daniel is so overwhelmed by all this that he lay sick for some days.  But he recovered, and went about the king's business.

(MSB says that the "near" fulfillment of this was Antiochus, who's career was until 164 BC, the end of the four kingdoms.  The latter period of their rule.  In BC 146, Rome conquers Greece, ending the time of the four winged leopard.  So...hang on.  There's the statue Nebuchadnezzar saw in Daniel 2:32, 33,  and there is this vision that Daniel saw.

There is an Excel spreadsheet with a Table correlating the vision of Neb, its interpretation, and Daniel's visions of the four beasts and the interpretation of that, and then of the ram with two horns, and the goat with only one, and Gabriel's interpretation of that vision.

I would just love to put that all right here so it is easy to find.  But I haven't been able to do it.  This has been all all day project.  I need to get on to 9.

Chapter 9
(The seventy weeks chapter)
In the first two verses we get a time stamp - first year of Darius, son of Ahasuerus.  Then Daniel says he has figured out that Jeremiah prophesied that Judah would be in captivity for 70 years.  Daniel figures it out.  It is believed this was written in 539 BC.  Note also that this is believed to be the use of Darius as a title, in this case for Cyrus, whom God allowed to be made king of the Chaldeans.

2022 - In vss 3-15, Daniel makes confession for Israel and for himself.  He seems to be acting as a High Priest, and approaching God himself and humbling himself and the nation before God.

Daniel prays that as this time grows near, God would reveal the next step in his plan for Israel.  Daniel begins by confessing all the sins of the people of Israel, their leaders, their princes and their kings.  Further, they have not repented of these sins, and as yet, have not cried out to God for relief and Mercy.  This part of the prayer is summarized here:
15 And now, O Lord our God, who brought your people out of the land of Egypt with a mighty hand, and have made a name for yourself, as at this day, we have sinned, we have done wickedly. [Dan 9:15 ESV]

Then Daniel makes his request.  It is for restoration of Jerusalem, of Zion, of God's own city, not for the people, but for His Name's sake.  A prayer in accordance with the will of God, as revealed in God's word.  Daniel knew he was asking God for what God already had planned.

Since Daniel is asking what is to come next, Gabriel comes to him again, with word of the future.  Only Daniel, so far as I know, is recorded as receiving this kind of explanation.  What faith he must have had!

vs 24:  Seventy weeks!  There are seven purposes to be accomplished by the decree of 70 weeks.  So the 70  years is just the first phase of what God has decreed for Jerusalem for her unfaithfulness.  The seven purposes are:
1.  to finish the transgression
2.  to put an end to sin
3.  to atone for iniquity
4.  to bring in everlasting righteousness
5.  to seal vision (to make all God's plans?)
6.  to seal prophet (to make all God's prophets 100% correct, and all prophecy fulfilled?)
7.  to anoint a most holy place.
MSB has a very long note explaining all this, though it puts my 5th and 6th one together.  MSB says sealing vision means that prophecy will end, and seal prophet means to bring to conclusion the fulfillment of all prophecy.

2022 - This verse:
24 "Seventy weeks are decreed about your people and your holy city, to finish the transgression, to put an end to sin, and to atone for iniquity, to bring in everlasting righteousness, to seal both vision and prophet, and to anoint a most holy place. [Dan 9:24 ESV]
To finish the transgression.  What was that earlier phrase..."the latter end of the indignation", in 8:19.  I think we see clearly now that these refer to God's ongoing wrath against the nation of Israel.  As in Daniel's day, that wrath against them still continues.  It will continue, not only for the 70 years of Babylonian captivity, but for 70x7 weeks, ending only after t/gt, with that huge Gentile Age inserted after week 69.  So that means...back in 8:19.  I am going back there to put in what it means, but understand that I got that from 9:24!

2020!!!-70 weeks to 70 AD?  Makes no sense.  That was final destruction not promised restoration as Gabriel says.  So that last week must still be separated off.
Vs 26 talks about 70 AD.  World history filled with war after that.  Vs 27 skips the rest of the church age and goes to those last 7 years.  Maybe all the visions in Daniel are like this.  From Daniel's time to 70 AD and then those last 7 years.  Daniel is not a prophecy of Gentile history, except as it unfolds to 70 AD.  This is making more sense than anything before.  This is why no Pope, no Ww1 and ww2, no Hitler, nothing about the US, its rise or fall.  The church age is not in prophecy except to say it will happen.  This is why Jesus was so clear that new wine cannot go in old skins.  We are not part of this.  Our times are of so little importance that the Bible doesn't even talk about it.  What does this mean?  It means we have no sacrifices to make, no traditions to keep...spreading the gospel is all there is for us.  Our one and only command is to be Christian in all that we do.  We should never feel important.  We are just Gentiles.  We just mark time.

From the decree to restore and rebuild Jerusalem to the coming of an anointed one, a prince, will be 7 weeks.  49 years.  Is this how long it was until the wall of Jerusalem was rebuilt and they had a new leader?  To the close of the OT?  To the end of Nehemiah - who rebuilt the city, the end of Malachi and so the end of the OT?
Once rebuilt, it was another 62 weeks - 434 years to the first advent of Messiah.  Per MSB, this 434 years was ended with Jesus' triumphal entry into Jerusalem on 10 Nisan, AD 30.  This is not  the same days as Adrian Roger's date above for the same event, of 4/6/32 AD.  While I am positive that the Bible is correct, it is obvious that some very learned people disagree on the jots and tittles.

After the sixty two weeks, an anointed one shall be cut off and shall have nothing.  Then the prince who is to come - Satan - will destroy the city and the sanctuary.  This is about 70 AD.  The city and sanctuary will fall suddenly, and it will be more or less desolate, surrounded by war to the end.  So the city of Jerusalem falls at the end of the 69th week of 70.  The last seven are trib and great trib.  Antichrist will make a "strong covenant" with many for one week, but in the middle, he will put an end to sacrifice and offering.  This refers back to the 2300 days of Dan. 8:14.  After this, the "decreed end".

2023 - This:
27 And he shall make a strong covenant with many for one week, and for half of the week he shall put an end to sacrifice and offering. And on the wing of abominations shall come one who makes desolate, until the decreed end is poured out on the desolator." [Dan 9:27 ESV].  This is a 7 year agreement.  Half of the week though...how can I possibly reconcile this with the 2600 days?  Both must be true, and I cannot resolve them!
Looking back at vs 26, there is a reference to "the prince who is to come", and who's people will destroy the city and the sanctuary.  If I make this about 70 AD, which isn't that hard to do, then I would be looking at a seven year agreement made way back then, and broken after just 3 1/2 years.  How long did AE keep the sacrifice shut down?  I looked for a while, but did not find anything useful.  Surely we know how long that lasted.  I am wondering if Gabriel - and this vision of Daniel that will not resolve with Rev 13 - is in fact ALL about the near fulfillment, with AE, who did indeed stop the sacrifice.  Perhaps he stopped it back then for 3 1/2 years after making a seven hear agreement with the local Jews when he came to power, and it is the MoL that will stop it for longer - for 2600 days.  Or maybe the other way around.  Maybe AE stopped if for 2600 days, and the MoL will only stop it for those last 3.5 years.  Hmm...that starts to make some sense and untangle things a bit...and I should be able, with some effort, to pin down with reasonable precision just how long AE had the temple shut down.  That number ought to be available!

2023 - Continuing the above...
AE profaned the temple on Dec 16, 156 BC, according to this article:  https://landmarkevents.org/antiochus-epiphanes-profanes-the-temple-156-bc/
Here is a paragraph in that article:  A  dispute over who should be the high priest of the Jews in Jerusalem  resulted in a war of bribery, won by the pro-Greek Jason over his  traditionalist brother Onias. A couple years later one Menaleus, not a  descendant of Aaron, paid a higher bribe to Antiochus and was installed  as the new high priest. Menaleus plundered the temple, causing riots in  Jerusalem, and Jason returned to lead the revolt. Antiochus took it all  personally and entered the city with an army, finished the temple  plundering, and established martial law. Always suspicious of Ptolemaic  Egypt, he converted Jerusalem into a fortress city and announced that it  would be Greek in religion, abolishing Jewish rites, burning all the  Torahs, and requiring the worship of “the manifest god.”
Depressingly, there is also this:  The ultimate breaking point came when Antiochus erected an altar to Zeus on top of the altar of burnt offerings, and sacrificed a pig on December 16, 167 BC..  How do you resolve the temple profaned in 156 BC and the sacrifice of that pig in 167 BC.  That's 11 years.  Surely the pig is profaning?  
Bottom line is that I haven't found this answer...but I think it is huge in understanding these prophecies.  I MUST move on.  Three hours already, and another chapter yet to read.

I am very tired.  My brain is tired.  There is too much in these three chapters.
2022 - Ditto.  I got down through vs 23 with some progress still being made. I did not dig at all into 24-27, which is where all the actions of the desolator are described.  I must get back to these soon.
2023 - ..and there is still chapter 10 to read...

Chapter 10
2023 - Reading straight through.
Cyrus now King, so we are back in chronological order.  
Beginning in verse 2, Daniel tells us about an encounter he has.  He tells us that he was not exactly fasting - likely because he was too old for his body to tolerate that - but he ate very plain food, and drank no wine for three straight weeks.  At about the end of this time, he was on the banks of the Tigris river, when he saw "something".  This is not described as a vision.  It says he saw this with his eyes.  Here is the description, as given by Daniel:
5 I lifted up my eyes and looked, and behold, a man clothed in linen, with a belt of fine gold from Uphaz around his waist. 6 His body was like beryl, his face like the appearance of lightning, his eyes like flaming torches, his arms and legs like the gleam of burnished bronze, and the sound of his words like the sound of a multitude. [Dan 10:5-6 ESV]

The men with Daniel couldn't see this man, but they knew something frightening was going on, and they fled to "hide themselves".  Daniel is able to see with his eyes a man who's body is spirit and not flesh. An angel perhaps though a very powerful sounding angel, or possibly the pre-incarnate Christ.  Maybe we will be told.

The presence of this "man" drains Daniel of his strength - just to be nearby drains Daniel physically.  The "man" speaks, and Daniel falls on his face in a deep sleep.  As if his body of flesh cannot deal with this "man".  The angel (I'm calling him angel for now) sets Daniel up as far as his hands and knees, and speaks to him.  He tells Daniel that he was sent as soon as Daniel started praying.  God heard Daniel's words, and it is "because of your words" that this angel is here.  The angel says he was delayed by the Prince of Persia, and Michael (the archangel I presume) had to come help him.  It makes it sound as if this Prince of Persia had "captured" the angel God sent, Michael came and got him loose so he could continue.  I think this confirms that this is a angel, not the pre-incarnate Christ, who could not have been stopped.  This "Prince of Persia" is not a person.  This too is an angel, but one that follows Satan.  One who didn't want Daniel to be told what was to come, indeed didn't want mankind to find out.  This Prince would not have wanted such certain confirmation of things that only could have come from God Himself, and so prove and motivate all who hear it to know that He is God.  Also interesting is that Persia had a demon overseeing events in that nation.  One placed in charge of keeping things in the dark, and in preventing any light from entering.  2020 - There were also Kings of Persia, if the translation is correct.  Need to look that up...see what the words for prince and king usually mean.

Upon hearing these words - perhaps upon being presented with a vision of what was to come, Daniel is left unable to speak.  Then, possibly a second angel touches him on the lips.  This one is described as "one in the likeness of the children of man".  Not described as lightning and beryl and brass as above.  So this seems like a different angel.  Daniel is able to speak, but he says he is in pain now because of the vision, and he has lost all his strength.  How then, can he talk to this angel?
Then "one who has the appearance of a man" (as opposed to the appearance of the children of man", as in yet a third spiritual, angelic being?) touches Daniel and he is strengthened.  This last addresses Daniel as "O man greatly loved..."  This is the same greeting used by the original, very powerful angel.  

Then these verses:
20 Then he said, "Do you know why I have come to you? But now I will return to fight against the prince of Persia; and when I go out, behold, the prince of Greece will come. 21 But I will tell you what is inscribed in the book of truth: there is none who contends by my side against these except Michael, your prince. [Dan 10:20-21 ESV]
How much information is really here???  The angel who strengthened Daniel - whether a third, a second or maybe there is only one and his appearance has changed, tells Daniel that he is going back to fight the Prince of Persia.  Then he says that when he "goes out" the prince of Greece will come.  This makes it seem like the prince of Persia - who is maintaining the earthly power of that empire - will be defeated.  Once this spiritual intervention is removed, another evil angel, the prince of Greece, will take over, and intervene to make that nation - and Alexander - assume prominence in the region.  So even though a powerful angel is able to overcome a powerful demon (my words, my thinking) another powerful demon is waiting in the wings.  They all want power in this geographic area so that they can prevent Israel from achieving God's purpose for them.  
Vs 21 - is the statement of what is in the book about the battle with the prince of Persia, with only this angel and Michael to oppose him, or is it saying that this angel is helping Michael - who is the angel sent to oppose the prince of Persia.  The use of "your prince" would seem to imply that for every demon that Satan sends, there is also an angel of God sent to do battle.  There is constant war in the spiritual realm over what is going on in the earth.  
Too much to take in here.  Too many possibilities.

From MSB:
This messenger sent to Daniel is distinct from Michael.  The description of this messenger is very similar to the description of Christ in Rev. 1:13, 14.  Daniel's reaction to this messenger - that is, his physical reaction - is also similar to John's in Rev. 1.  However....I just don't believe there is a "prince" who could have kept Christ from where he intended to go, and if there was, I don't think adding one more angel to the fight would make the difference.  I just don't think this was Christ "sent" to talk to Daniel.  It was a pre-eminent angel of some sort, but it was not Christ.  Not in my book.
MSB says in vs 10 that the one who touched Daniel was likely Gabriel.  Just because it was Gabriel who was sent last time.  It goes on to describe the heavenly/spiritual situation much like I already have.  It adds that Michael was there to assure that Israel retained it's land.  It says Michael is the chief angel of heaven, and cites also Dan. 10:21, 12:1, Jude 9, and Rev 12:7.  Haven't read those.
MSB says the prince of Greece was "contesting for the kingdom of Greece".  I presume this means with an angel from God who was looking after Greece.  Always two sides.  For vs 21, MSB says that the angel with Michael intended to handle the demons of both Persia and Greece.  This forms the heavenly basis for the unfolding of history in 11:2-35, so we have that to look forward to.

2023 - But the next day.  This verse:
21 But I will tell you what is inscribed in the book of truth: there is none who contends by my side against these except Michael, your prince. [Dan 10:21 ESV].  This clearly says that Michael is Daniel's prince.  Michael is an angel, but has prince also as a designation.  I think we can infer here that Michael is over the "region" of Israel.  He is Israel's angel.  We learn from vss 13-14 that there is a "region" of Persia.  We learn that in a pinch, Michael came to help this one talking to Daniel.  Michael is not just a Prince, but a Chief prince..  There are also kings of Persia.  Lower case kings.  In vs 20, this one who was fighting the Prince of Persia will go out, and then the Prince of Greece will come.  Then the thing about Michael being Daniel's prince.  A LOT of information, a lot of food for rank speculation is here.

Chapter 11
The angel that is speaking says that he has been supporting Darius the Mede who has shown kindness to Israel as a result.  
Ok, so here we go...MSB says 11:2-45 is about to unfold future history from Daniel's time to the tribulation - a time when Michael will aid in fully delivering Israel.  MSB says this history is so minute in detail that non-believing scholars absolutely insist that it had to have been written after the fact.  MSB says they have no evidence at all that it was written later, but they are "required" to insist on a later date, or to admit that this was true prophecy that could only have come from God.  
Then MSB says 11:2-35 will be about the near fulfillment of the Persian kingdom, and the reign of Greece through Antiochus Epiphanes.  (I hope I can keep up.  My mind is still tired from all the ground covered yesterday.  My impression is that what we're getting today will encompass part of yesterday, yet in a still greater level of detail.  Today's chapter 11 reading should mesh with at least some of yesterday's chapters 7-9.  I very much had the feeling yesterday that I was being prevented from getting through those chapters and understanding them.  I expect that was partially successful.  Now, tired from that, I worry that I won't get all of what is here today.  Praying about that before going on...)
I expect I will need to lean heavily on the MSB footnotes for the historical reality of the prophecy of Daniel.
2022 - I am not even going to try and go deep.  My purpose in this year's reading was and is to focus on the NT books that have always been covered to rapidly and in too much volume per day.  I have learned so much more from the NT this year by reading those chapters first, and then moving to the OT readings that I have no regrets whatever...even though that means that today, on these two chapters in Daniel that one could probably spend a year on, I will be reading straight through.  I have neither the time nor the focus left to do this justice.  I am just going to read it.
2024 - Interesting, after reading the above, that this year, I am reading this on my first day back from five days in Galveston.  I slept late, I'm tired, and I'm foggy.  Almost every year, when I get to these two chapters, I am somehow "handicapped".  Just makes me wonder.

2023 - In 11:1, the prince who had been speaking to Daniel in 10 continues.  He seems to be the prince of Medea or possibly of Babylon...In any case, he is NOT the prince of Persia or Greece or Israel.  He is over a fourth "region".  This one, who was sent to answer Daniel's questions, begins his explanation.
2024 - So here are four of the seven regions sort of identified.  There are three more.  It seems reasonable to speculate that one of  them is Egypt.  That would be five.  What about Gog/Magog?  That seems a good bet, and makes six.  Only thing left is the area in the Middle East that it not Israel.  Would include Saudi Arabia, Syria, Ammon, Moab, and so on.  That would get us to seven.  And the rest of the world plays no part?  Or is seven over the rest of the world?  This leaves out Rome, but in Daniel's day, Rome was not a contender.  And maybe Michael is over Israel and everything around it, but that one is so hotly contested that a lot of the area is in the hands of one of Satan's Seven.  Which frees up the seventh of God to be over the rest of the planet.  China, Russia for the most part, the EU and UK, and the entire Western Hemisphere, then, will not figure in these prophecies of Daniel, because none of them will figure in the end times.  This almost requires that the areas under the seventh prince either fall completely to Satan's forces, or they sink back into third world nobody status before the end times start.  You can see why things would be constantly going back and forth in the seventh region, because it is just too much territory to hold all of it, for either side.  You might say that today, God's forces are winning in Africa, while ground is lost in the rest of the region.

vs 2 seems to be a lay down to a previous verse...or maybe somehow I got to this one yesterday, or it was in an MSB note...In any case, this does not look like a repeated verse.  I will look further another time.  It escapes me for now.
The phrase "shall...do as he wills" in vs 3 also seems like a repeat.  Moving on...been on these three verses half an hour already...

Four more kings to come in Persia, with the last being very wealthy.  Far beyond the others in wealth.  This fourth king, I think, will recruit allies and attack Greece.  Then a great king will arise in Greece.  Alexander the Great I believe.  It is Alexander who will "do as he wills".  His power will be unlimited in his domain.  But Alexander will die, and his kingdom divided into four parts.  He will have no say in who rules each part (Alexander dies pretty suddenly as I recall).  Also, it will not be Alexander's descendants who rule.  All that he put together will evaporate and/or be given to others.  Just like Ecclesiastes would predict.  
Of the four, the one in the south will become great.  The Ptolemies in Egypt, I would guess.  (Yes, per MSB)

2023 - East to follow to this point - through vs 4.  We are talking about things future to Daniel and history to us.  After 4, things get very specific.  I have read in other sources about how accurately this describes events.  I thought I had a link to that, but apparently not.  In any case, today, I am reading on through verse 35, because MSB says up to there is history to us.  

MSB notes go into great detail, as I had hoped.  I wish there was a way to cut and paste it all, but there is not.  It's like each phrase in these verses corresponds to events now documented as historic fact.  I'm going to read these notes, but I will leave the notes where they are.  I can always refer to them without having to copy the whole MSB.

There is also this:  As MSB said, this chapter is so minute in it's detail of history, so inerrant in it's predictions, that if one wants to be an atheist, one must absolutely, uncompromisingly deny that it is anything but a fake and a forgery, put together after the fact, and passed off as an historic document.  The person or persons who put it together had to have been extremely learned for their time to have such an intimate knowledge of the intricacies of so many nations, plots, intrigues, and conquests.  This extremely learned person, for some reason, had to decide that introducing a "fake prophecy" into the canon of scripture in order to undermine all scripture, was more worth undertaking than writing a history of the world himself and bringing fame, fortune and accolade to himself.  A brilliant person more devoted to undermining scripture than to promoting himself.  How likely is this???
To any atheist out there, go and do your homework.  Prove beyond a reasonable doubt that Daniel is a fake, written 400 years after it says it was.  And you can't just say "Well it obviously has to have been because there's no way these things could be predicted.  Only an idiot would believe it."  This is a tautology, I believe.  It says "I know it's wrong because I know it's wrong, and it's wrong because I know it is."
If you claim to be an atheist, and you don't look into this fairly and deeply, then I don't think you're any better at atheism than you were at Christianity. I think you're the fake in this story.  Elevating your own pitiful knowledge above that of all the people who have tried and failed to prove this book a fake.  Really?  Where is your PhD in history from?  How are you qualified to deny this book....But I need to move on...

2023 - Here is an interesting verse:
14 "In those times many shall rise against the king of the south, and the violent among your own people shall lift themselves up in order to fulfill the vision, but they shall fail. [Dan 11:14 ESV].  This appears to say that Israel will raise an army and go and attack Egypt, but fail.  And this is after the Babylonian captivity.  I did not realize that Israel ever got strong enough militarily for such a campaign...But it clearly says "your own people".  This would be a really good point to confirm.

vs 21:
21 In his place shall arise a contemptible person to whom royal majesty has not been given. He shall come in without warning and obtain the kingdom by flatteries. [Dan 11:21 ESV]
This is Antiochus Epiphanes.  Per MSB, there was a power vacuum, with the son of the recently dead King of the Seleucids held captive in Rome.  Into this "space" came AE.  Not a royal descendant, not a legitimate heir.  A cruel and ruthless man.  Apparently though, he was an awesome military leader.  

2023 - In vs 22, see who is referenced as "even the prince of the covenant".

Wars rage.  Then this, after AE  has put down Egypt, and is on his way back north, through Israel, to Syria:
28 And he shall return to his land with great wealth, but his heart shall be set against the holy covenant. And he shall work his will and return to his own land. [Dan 11:28 ESV]
Here is the MSB note, which I have copied in it's entirety, on vs 28.  Because it is so important!
"En route N through Israel to Syria with riches, Antiochus met a revolt, as sources outside Scripture mention.  He struck Jerusalem's temple, profaned the sacrificial system, massacred 80,000 men, took 40,000 prisoners, sold 40,000 as slaves, and squelched a Jewish bid to depose his own designated priest, Menelaus."
Find the "outside sources".  (2023 - Josephus.  I have it marked in that book.  This is all as Josephus tells it.  Why not just say that, MSB?)  See what they really say, word for word, and paste it in here.  This certainly seems to make AE a "type" for the final Antichrist.
But it doesn't end here.  This was only the first outrage.  Antiochus attacks Egypt a third time, but a Roman fleet from Cyprus discourages that attack.  AE is unwilling to attack Roman forces directly, so he turns back empty handed.  This verse:
31 Forces from him shall appear and profane the temple and fortress, and shall take away the regular burnt offering. And they shall set up the abomination that makes desolate. [Dan 11:31 ESV]
About this verse, MSB says (based on the NASB, which is the translation of my copy of MSB):
"11:31 desecrate the sanctuary.  Antiochus' soldiers, no doubt working with apostate Jews, guarded the temple, halting all worship, while others attacked the city on the Sabbath slaughtering men, women, and children.  Soldiers desecrated Israel's temple, banned circumcision, and daily sacrifices (1 Macc 1:44-24) and sacrificed a pig on the altar.  The Syrians on Chislev (Dec. 15 167 BC) even imposed an idol statue in honor of the Olympian god Zeus into the temple.  Jews called it "the abomination of desolation," i.e. denying or ruining for Jewish worship.  abomination of desolation.  Antiochus' soldiers profaned God's temple by spreading sow's broth on the altar and banning daily sacrifices (cf 8:14 and see note there) as described in 1 Macc 1:44-54.  Both Daniel and Jesus said this atrocity was only a preview of the abomination that would happen later under the final Antichrist (9:27, Mt 24:15).   
NOTE that this verse says it is "forces from him" that do all this.  It is not Antiochus himself, at least not yet.

2023 - I need a copy of Maccabees.  Much of this corresponds to Josephus, but there is more information here than that.  I would like to read both.  I think Josephus uses a phrase something like "abomination of desolation" but not that exactly.  Note here thought that it was the statue, the idol, and NOT a man that was the abomination of desolation.  So far in Daniel 11, there is no mention of how long this continued...

Vs 32-35 speak of things that go on in Jerusalem during this time.  In the face of persecution by the forces of Antiochus, many deny the covenant and turn away.  Others, apparently called Hasideans (that explains where that name came from!!!!) remain true to the covenant, teach others the word, and many are martyred, of their own choice, for the stance that they take.  There is much pretension on the part of those frightened and unwilling to take a stand for God, and many pretend to be loyal in order to escape being labeled as apostates.  Imagine the further intrigue, lies, and traitorous acts these perpetrated against the Hasideans!  What an awful time.  Neighbor vs neighbor, father vs son...all that was going on at this time.  The horror of this time is summed up in this verse:
35 and some of the wise shall stumble, so that they may be refined, purified, and made white, until the time of the end, for it still awaits the appointed time. [Dan 11:35 ESV]  Even in this time of fear, of stark choices, of faith on pain of death, God has a purpose.  He was preserving His remnant, He was purifying those precious to Him.

2020-Why do we hear so little about AE?  Would knowledge of him make ID of AC when he comes easier?  Much of what we do know seems to come from Maccabees.  Need to read those intertestamentary books for the historical info there.
Again, it seems that the prophecies given to Daniel are confined to info about Israel.  History in this sense ends in 70 AD and marks time until the last 7 years.  World events during the church age are of no importance.   Only the spreading of the gospel matters during this time.   The New Covenant is only with those who accept it, as opposed to the Old being with a people, even though they tried to back out.  The New Covenant does not operate like the old.  It is voluntary.   There should be a lot more contrasts between Old and New than I have figured out so far.   That would be a huge study, and from it should come a better definition of what the purpose of the church really is.

Then, per MSB, there is a jump forward in time, from AE and the atrocities his soldiers committed, to the final Antichrist.  This jump is identified as such by the use in vs 35 of some eschatological phrases - in ESV "the time of the end" and "the appointed time".  These terms precede this verse:
36 "And the king shall do as he wills. He shall exalt himself and magnify himself above every god, and shall speak astonishing things against the God of gods. He shall prosper till the indignation is accomplished; for what is decreed shall be done. [Dan 11:36 ESV]
This verse, per MSB, is about the final Antichrist, and his actions when he breaks the "covenant with many for one week".

2023 - In reference to the paragraph above, here is vs 35:
35 and some of the wise shall stumble, so that they may be refined, purified, and made white, until the time of the end, for it still awaits the appointed time. [Dan 11:35 ESV].  Note that this verse is a continuation of a sentence that started before.  Looking at the text, we can almost take this all the way back to vs 32 being the beginning of the "last days" description.  It is talking about the wise all the way back to 33.  It seems to be about how they are taken in at first, but at some point recognize who this is.  They will suffer - they will be refined, purified, made white.  This is surely tied to several verses in  Revelation that I will look up a bit later.  But even back to 33 seems like we have jumped ahead.  What was the signal for that?  I think vs 30 can easily be traced to AE, via what Josephus says.  So that keeps us in the past to this point.  The events of 31 can also be found in Josephus.  This is when AE looted the temple in his greed, breaking the agreement he has made with the Jews who "disguised" their circumcision.  Perhaps that phrase "abomination of desolation" is the linchpin that is common both to history and to the future?  These verses:
15 "So when you see the abomination of desolation spoken of by the prophet Daniel, standing in the holy place (let the reader understand), [Mat 24:15 ESV]
14 "But when you see the abomination of desolation standing where he ought not to be (let the reader understand), then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains. [Mar 13:14 ESV].
This seems to be the right way to look at it.  From the NT, we know the a of d was still future.  But from Josephus, and apparently also from Maccabees, we know it was past.  So the way I will look at this is that vs 31 is common to AE and to the MoL.  This is also where Daniel 11 jumps from past to future.  Vs 32 is all future.

2023 - Vs 36, the mouth uttering blasphemy:
36 "And the king shall do as he wills. He shall exalt himself and magnify himself above every god, and shall speak astonishing things against the God of gods. He shall prosper till the indignation is accomplished; for what is decreed shall be done. [Dan 11:36 ESV].  What in the world will he be saying?  There is no doubt now that we are talking about the future.  Many references to the words this one will spout.  It would be good to compile them and put them in here, so that it is clear what is going on.  

Never seen this phrase before:
38 He shall honor the god of fortresses instead of these. A god whom his fathers did not know he shall honor with gold and silver, with precious stones and costly gifts. [Dan 11:38 ESV]  God of fortresses?  MSB says he will worship only power, and will build armies and conquer territory to gain power.  Goes on to say he will "promote" those who acknowledge him, and make them rulers over many.  Mark of the beast stuff...promotion because of loyalty, willingness to do anything required, to betray any and all for the sake of self-promotion in the kingdom of Antichrist.

2020-He shall deal with the strongest fortresses with the help of a foreign god. Those who acknowledge him he shall load with honor. He shall make them rulers over many and shall divide the land for a price.
Daniel 11:39 ESV
What are these fortresses?  Who is this foreign god that helps?  Why have I never heard it mentioned?

So many things here that I have NEVER HEARD!!!  Others I never realized were in Daniel and NOT in Revelation.  Look at this verse, unknown to me until today:
40 "At the time of the end, the king of the south shall attack him, but the king of the north shall rush upon him like a whirlwind, with chariots and horsemen, and with many ships. And he shall come into countries and shall overflow and pass through. [Dan 11:40 ESV]
Once AC is in power, he will be attacked by armies from both the north and the south.  Worldly forces will themselves try to unseat him, to slow him down, to stop him and kill him.  This is the kind of power he will have.  None will be successful opposing him.  This is all going to be happening during the 7 year tribulation period!

This verse:
41 He shall come into the glorious land. And tens of thousands shall fall, but these shall be delivered out of his hand: Edom and Moab and the main part of the Ammonites. [Dan 11:41 ESV]
He is going to conquer Jerusalem/Israel.  Many will die.  But here the prophecies of the persistence of Edom, Moab, and Ammon are fulfilled.  Antichrist will not be able to destroy the Jews.  Surely that is his ambition.  He wants to destroy them all, but they will find refuge in the land of these ancient enemies.

2023 - Also, from this verse, we see that MoL will NOT be originally based in Jerusalem.  That makes it possible for Ezekiel's temple to be built elsewhere, by him, as an enticement to the Jews.    He shall come into the glorious land, he will not be based there.  So the Temple where he stands and declares himself God...could be a rebuilt Temple in Jerusalem, but look how far back in Dan 11 you have to go for that to be possible.

He will turn to Egypt, and the south, and conquer them all.  He will take their treasures and demand their loyalty.

After defeating the south, he will get news that forces from elsewhere are mustering to attack him also.  He will retreat, and prepare to face them "between the sea and the glorious holy mountain".  This is the battle at the very end of the tribulation period, when the returning Christ will defeat this last Antichrist and all his army, ushering in the Millennial Reign.  

And that has to be the most eye-opening, fact filled, "amplification" of the movements and purposes of the final Antichrist that I have ever seen or heard.  How could I not know that this was here!  Has to be at least the fourth time I've read it, and I think this is my fifth time through the Bible!  2020-No longer sure how much of this I have right.  I appreciate MSB pointing out the break between AE and AC.  Need to look back through that lens at previous visions.  Still glaringly obvious that world event that do not affect Israel are unimportant.

And he shall pitch his palatial tents between the sea and the glorious holy mountain. Yet he shall come to his end, with none to help him.
Daniel 11:45 ESV
https://bible.com/bible/59/dan.11.45.ESV
Isn't this where the prince's portion is located in Ezekiel's allocation of the land?  He will be in charge until he breaks the covenant, so maybe he is the prince in Ezekiel?

((((2023 - Have to stop here for now...Bible study later, need a shower before, lunch, and need to print and prep all my notes for today.  Will just have to find time for 12 later.  It has been a profoundly encouraging morning of study so far!!!)))

Chapter 12
Verse 1 again blows me away, because I have never taken notice of this before:
1 "At that time shall arise Michael, the great prince who has charge of your people. And there shall be a time of trouble, such as never has been since there was a nation till that time. But at that time your people shall be delivered, everyone whose name shall be found written in the book. [Dan 12:1 ESV]
MSB says the phrase "At that time..." means during the time of Antichrist, the time of tribulation, in 11:36-45.  Michael will intervene during the last 7 years to preserve Israel from the Antichrist.  Only by his intervention will they survive.

2023 - Is the verse above about the time of Jacob's trouble?  That phrase "a time of trouble, such as never has been".  We see phrases like that in several places in the Bible, notably in the NT.  A person out to look them up and xref them here.  I would particularly note that this is about "Daniel's people", which couldn't really mean anyone but the Jews.  And the Jew's - Jacob's descendants - are going to have some serious trouble.  And note further that ONLY those written in the book will be delivered.  Saved Jews, during tgt.

Then this:
2 And many of those who sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt. [Dan 12:2 ESV]   2020 - or this could be the dry bones of Ezekiel coming back to life.  Oh my...is the rapture and the dry bones resurrection the same event?  All will happen at once?
This would refer to the end of the Millennial and the Great White Throne I believe.  

2023 - Dry bones is different than the rapture, I believe.  Reasons below after vs. 5....But look at vs 2.  How can that be interpreted as anything but a resurrection of the dead.  And note that the ones resurrected are not ALL saved!  If the rapture has already occurred at this point, then this is not a resurrection of the church, but a resurrection of the Jews - perhaps of all the Jews that have ever been up to that time.  I have got to be "off" here.  No preacher, ever, that I have heard, speaks of a resurrection of Jews only, during tgt, and AFTER the rapture.  But right now today, that's what I think this is about.  It means the dry bones are not symbolic at all, but a vision of future events.  And only some of them will be saved.  Lost Jews from history past will get shame and EVERLASTING contempt.  That is a new term for hell, if that is what it means.  Then Daniel is told to seal it up. And THEN he is told that knowledge shall increase.  Could this mean a continuing, inspired, timed release of the meaning of these prophecies?  Can I tie that part about shining like the sky or like stars back to Ezekiel 37?  The breath that they breathe comes from the four winds, so we are looking there at a natural element - like sky and stars.  
Here is a verse that might fit here:  11 Then he said to me, "Son of man, these bones are the whole house of Israel. Behold, they say, 'Our bones are dried up, and our hope is lost; we are indeed cut off.' [Eze 37:11 ESV]
And what about this?
12 Therefore prophesy, and say to them, Thus says the Lord GOD: Behold, I will open your graves and raise you from your graves, O my people. And I will bring you into the land of Israel. [Eze 37:12 ESV]
13 And you shall know that I am the LORD, when I open your graves, and raise you from your graves, O my people. 14 And I will put my Spirit within you, and you shall live, and I will place you in your own land. Then you shall know that I am the LORD; I have spoken, and I will do it, declares the LORD." [Eze 37:13-14 ESV].  I see no way to claim that these verses in Ezekiel and 12:2 in Daniel are NOT about the same event.  This is a resurrection of the house of Israel  It just is!
Here is what MSB says:  Two groups will arise from death constituting the "many" which means "all".  I would argue that many does not mean all.  He uses Jn 5:29 to say they mean the same thing.  Here is that plus 28:  28 Do not marvel at this, for an hour is coming when all who are in the tombs will hear his voice 29 and come out, those who have done good to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil to the resurrection of judgment. [Jhn 5:28-29 ESV].  This cannot be the rapture, since that is only for the saved.  The only other resurrection - at least up until tonight - is at the GWT.  If these verses in John are talking about the GWT, then there will still be saved people to be resurrected there.  Who could they be?  Not the church because it was resurrected at the rapture.  So....that sort of says that the OT saints will not be resurrected in the rapture.  Only the church.  Abraham won't be resurrected until the GWT.  So the saved at the GWT will be the OT saints, and the lost will be everyone else not raptured.  MSB goes on to say "The souls of OT saints are already with the Lord; at that time, they will receive glorified bodies.   What MSB does NOT say is whether this is the resurrection just before the GWT.  
(((cf Rev 20:4-6, which is here: 4 Then I saw thrones, and seated on them were those to whom the authority to judge was committed. Also I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for the testimony of Jesus and for the word of God, and those who had not worshiped the beast or its image and had not received its mark on their foreheads or their hands. They came to life and reigned with Christ for a thousand years. 5 The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were ended. This is the first resurrection. 6 Blessed and holy is the one who shares in the first resurrection! Over such the second death has no power, but they will be priests of God and of Christ, and they will reign with him for a thousand years. [Rev 20:4-6 ESV].  These verses are about Christ's judgment of the living just before the Millennial.   There is a resurrection here also, but those resurrected are NOT judged at this time.  It says they are already martyrs of tgt.  This may well say that the saved who die during tgt will NOT be judged.  If they are, it will be at the GWT, because it is not here.  Keep reading.  These will not have to worry about the second death, the one that occurs at the GWT, when those who have been waiting in hell get one last appeal, which will be denied, and go into the Lake of Fire for eternity.  So the ones resurrected in these verses ALL go to heaven, unlike what Daniel says in vs. 2.  Not ALL of those resurrected in Dan 12:2 go to heaven.  So I believe Dr. MacA is mistaken to connect Dan 12:2, Jn 5:28-29, and Rev 20:4-6.  I go even further.  I think proper reading of this verse implies a third episode of resurrection - as there are also three episodes of judgment.  I think "proof" that this is separate will come in a few more verses.  If 12:2 is NOT a third resurrection event, then it can only be the resurrection prior to the GWT... which we will see that it cannot be.).  

In verse 5, "two others" appear.  Two more angels?  One on either shore of the Tigris.  "Someone" asks the one who is above the waters of the stream how long it will be until the end of these wonders?"  The answer is time, and times, and half a time.  So 3.5 years.  Not sure how far back into this narrative you go to the start of that period, but my guess is that it is from 11:36 on.  The last half of the 7, the Great Tribulation.   MSB has references of Dan 7:25, Dan 11:36-39, and Rev 12:14.  See also Rev 11:2,3 and 13:5.

2023 - Let's look at the verses:  6 And someone said to the man clothed in linen, who was above the waters of the stream, "How long shall it be till the end of these wonders?" 7 And I heard the man clothed in linen, who was above the waters of the stream; he raised his right hand and his left hand toward heaven and swore by him who lives forever that it would be for a time, times, and half a time, and that when the shattering of the power of the holy people comes to an end all these things would be finished. [Dan 12:6-7 ESV].  Several things we need to know:
1. The end of what wonders?  This large scale resurrection of dead people?  That seems like the best candidate!
2. A time, times, and half a time.  I think, and everything I've ever read concurs, that these words mean a year, two years, and half a year.  3.5 years.  So that seems to say that from the time these dead people are resurrected until they are "dealt with" let's say, will be 3 1/2 years.  SO.  The "easy" interpretation of that says that this will occur in the very middle of tgt.  But of course that makes it a third resurrection, that ties it to Ez 37, and we don't really want to do that.  Another way to look at it is to say that the GWT, commencing after the Millennial,  will require at least 3.5 years for judging all those who resurrect for that.  I guess that is a possibility.  Hmm...might even be a good way to look at it.  If that is what it is, then the GWT will be a judgment of all the lost of all time, and all the nation of Israel of all time - both saved and unsaved.  That does answer a lot of questions...but creates others.  Why would Ezekiel make such a big deal of the resurrection of Israel if it is only to final judgment?  Ez 37:22, 24-27 speak of Israel living in the land of their fathers, not just for a thousand years, but forever.  And while there, forever, God will set his sanctuary among them...Ezekiel's Temple?  So...in the new heaven and the new earth, that DO last forever, Israel will be Israel, they will have Ezekiel's temple at which to worship which means animal sacrifices forever...Odd...but my goodness it does fit the timeline after all!
3. What is the shattering of the power of the holy people that will end?  Is that the curse of blindness?  That ought to be lifted when the 144,000 start their ministry...That is about live people,  however.  These are resurrected Jews, who were perhaps "stuck" somewhere, powerless, until this resurrection.  I'm going to have to think on this, sleep on all this...because it is very new to me.  I like what all it explains.  It is a different version of end times than I have considered before, but I think this version answers more questions than it causes.  Wow.
4. Hold everything....We have too many time periods labeled 3 1/2 years.  The 3 1/2, last time I checked, was about the time of AE, from the time he made a deal with the raggedy Jews until he took away the sacrifice.  Here again we are talking about 3 1/2 years.  So we need to consider that somewhere along here we have gone back to AE's time.  OR we have to say that the 3 1/2 year period then somehow foreshadows the 3 1/2 years here.  This is the very last note I made on 2/3/23, it is IMPORTANT and needs to be addressed...but I do not have any more in me today.  It will have to wait.
(((2023 - Next day...I note that in vs 4, the words are to be shut up and sealed, adn then vs 5 begins a new vision.  This may be a reversion back to AE.  Vs 9 is also a candidate for a shift in the time the visions portray.  Something to look for in more detail next year.)))

2023 - This one:
9 He said, "Go your way, Daniel, for the words are shut up and sealed until the time of the end. [Dan 12:9 ESV].  Sealed as in incomprehensible until the time actually arrives, and then it will all be clear?  Like Dwight predicts...we are all going to be sooooo surprised!!!

Then there is this about the 1290 days and the 1335 days...
The 1290 days are 3 1/2 years plus 30 days.  The extra 30 might be for judging the living once Christ sets up his kingdom.  There will still be sin...but what is this judgement.  This is not the Great White Throne, which is after the Millennial.  Maybe this judges who can enter the city?
The 1335 is another 45 days.  Perhaps to set up the civil government in Jerusalem.  Must remember that it is here, during this time, that Ezekiel's Temple will be used as originally intended at Sinai.  There will be a prince, not Jesus, who makes sacrifices in this temple.  All this has to be set up, and people don't move as instantly as God.

2023 - Or...dare I suggest that these words are about AE.  The Temple was shut down somewhere around 3 years.  Depending on the precise reckoning, it could be 1290 days.  And the 1335?  Perhaps it took 45 days more to purify the temple.  1260 days from the time it was shut down until the city was retaken.  30 days to rebuild the temple vessels.  45 days to purify them.  And then the sacrifice recommenced.  I don't know.  I do not know.  This could as easily be how long things take at the end of the Millennial, to get through the GWT, set up the new Temple, select the new priests and train them, and commence the sacrifice again for all eternity.  That is not a bad interpretation either.  

Daniel is told to "go his way", to live until he dies.  He is told that he will rest then, until time to stand in "his allotted place" at the end of the days.  What a promise!

So much here...so much I didn't realize.  I think 11 has always been just too complex for me to assimilate.  I couldn't do it on my own.  But the MSB opened it up for me.  Now I know at least one "smarter person's" interpretation of that chapter, and I have some fleshing out of the history of the Seleucids and a much better understanding of the "original" abomination of desolation.

2022 - There seems to be far more to unravel in Dan 11, 12, than in all of Revelation combined.  You have to go through these two chapters, correlating events with history, until you find a divergence.  I think that divergence will be in 11:40, where it says "at the time of the end".  Note that just a little earlier we once again saw the phrase "till the indignation is accomplished", which I believe is just before t/gt begins.  The time of the end is...t/gt I think.  This phrase signals, as of today in my opinion, the 70th week.  I think 12:7 drives this home.  The time of the end may - indeed is almost certainly according to 12:7, the last 3 1/2 years.
Daniel is its own study.  A clear "guess" as to Daniel 11, 12 must be well in hand before any encompassing study of the end times can be undertaken.  That all seems quite monumental to me.  Not impossible...but I may not have enough years left to accomplish it.

2023 - After all the new things that came out of reading Daniel this seventh time through, I absolutely cannot wait until next year!!!

Chapter 12
Verse 1 again blows me away, because I have never taken notice of this before:
1 "At that time shall arise Michael, the great prince who has charge of your people. And there shall be a time of trouble, such as never has been since there was a nation till that time. But at that time your people shall be delivered, everyone whose name shall be found written in the book. [Dan 12:1 ESV]
MSB says the phrase "At that time..." means during the time of Antichrist, the time of tribulation, in 11:36-45.  Michael will intervene during the last 7 years to preserve Israel from the Antichrist.  Only by his intervention will they survive.

2023 - Is the verse above about the time of Jacob's trouble?  That phrase "a time of trouble, such as never has been".  We see phrases like that in several places in the Bible, notably in the NT.  A person out to look them up and xref them here.  I would particularly note that this is about "Daniel's people", which couldn't really mean anyone but the Jews.  And the Jew's - Jacob's descendants - are going to have some serious trouble.  And note further that ONLY those written in the book will be delivered.  Saved Jews, during tgt.

Then this:
2 And many of those who sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt. [Dan 12:2 ESV]   2020 - or this could be the dry bones of Ezekiel coming back to life.  Oh my...is the rapture and the dry bones resurrection the same event?  All will happen at once?
This would refer to the end of the Millennial and the Great White Throne I believe.  

2023 - Dry bones is different than the rapture, I believe.  Reasons below after vs. 5....But look at vs 2.  How can that be interpreted as anything but a resurrection of the dead.  And note that the ones resurrected are not ALL saved!  If the rapture has already occurred at this point, then this is not a resurrection of the church, but a resurrection of the Jews - perhaps of all the Jews that have ever been up to that time.  I have got to be "off" here.  No preacher, ever, that I have heard, speaks of a resurrection of Jews only, during tgt, and AFTER the rapture.  But right now today, that's what I think this is about.  It means the dry bones are not symbolic at all, but a vision of future events.  And only some of them will be saved.  Lost Jews from history past will get shame and EVERLASTING contempt.  That is a new term for hell, if that is what it means.  Then Daniel is told to seal it up. And THEN he is told that knowledge shall increase.  Could this mean a continuing, inspired, timed release of the meaning of these prophecies?  Can I tie that part about shining like the sky or like stars back to Ezekiel 37?  The breath that they breathe comes from the four winds, so we are looking there at a natural element - like sky and stars.  
Here is a verse that might fit here:  11 Then he said to me, "Son of man, these bones are the whole house of Israel. Behold, they say, 'Our bones are dried up, and our hope is lost; we are indeed cut off.' [Eze 37:11 ESV]
And what about this?
12 Therefore prophesy, and say to them, Thus says the Lord GOD: Behold, I will open your graves and raise you from your graves, O my people. And I will bring you into the land of Israel. [Eze 37:12 ESV]
13 And you shall know that I am the LORD, when I open your graves, and raise you from your graves, O my people. 14 And I will put my Spirit within you, and you shall live, and I will place you in your own land. Then you shall know that I am the LORD; I have spoken, and I will do it, declares the LORD." [Eze 37:13-14 ESV].  I see no way to claim that these verses in Ezekiel and 12:2 in Daniel are NOT about the same event.  This is a resurrection of the house of Israel  It just is!
Here is what MSB says:  Two groups will arise from death constituting the "many" which means "all".  I would argue that many does not mean all.  He uses Jn 5:29 to say they mean the same thing.  Here is that plus 28:  28 Do not marvel at this, for an hour is coming when all who are in the tombs will hear his voice 29 and come out, those who have done good to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil to the resurrection of judgment. [Jhn 5:28-29 ESV].  This cannot be the rapture, since that is only for the saved.  The only other resurrection - at least up until tonight - is at the GWT.  If these verses in John are talking about the GWT, then there will still be saved people to be resurrected there.  Who could they be?  Not the church because it was resurrected at the rapture.  So....that sort of says that the OT saints will not be resurrected in the rapture.  Only the church.  Abraham won't be resurrected until the GWT.  So the saved at the GWT will be the OT saints, and the lost will be everyone else not raptured.  MSB goes on to say "The souls of OT saints are already with the Lord; at that time, they will receive glorified bodies.   What MSB does NOT say is whether this is the resurrection just before the GWT.  
(((cf Rev 20:4-6, which is here: 4 Then I saw thrones, and seated on them were those to whom the authority to judge was committed. Also I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for the testimony of Jesus and for the word of God, and those who had not worshiped the beast or its image and had not received its mark on their foreheads or their hands. They came to life and reigned with Christ for a thousand years. 5 The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were ended. This is the first resurrection. 6 Blessed and holy is the one who shares in the first resurrection! Over such the second death has no power, but they will be priests of God and of Christ, and they will reign with him for a thousand years. [Rev 20:4-6 ESV].  These verses are about Christ's judgment of the living just before the Millennial.   There is a resurrection here also, but those resurrected are NOT judged at this time.  It says they are already martyrs of tgt.  This may well say that the saved who die during tgt will NOT be judged.  If they are, it will be at the GWT, because it is not here.  Keep reading.  These will not have to worry about the second death, the one that occurs at the GWT, when those who have been waiting in hell get one last appeal, which will be denied, and go into the Lake of Fire for eternity.  So the ones resurrected in these verses ALL go to heaven, unlike what Daniel says in vs. 2.  Not ALL of those resurrected in Dan 12:2 go to heaven.  So I believe Dr. MacA is mistaken to connect Dan 12:2, Jn 5:28-29, and Rev 20:4-6.  I go even further.  I think proper reading of this verse implies a third episode of resurrection - as there are also three episodes of judgment.  I think "proof" that this is separate will come in a few more verses.  If 12:2 is NOT a third resurrection event, then it can only be the resurrection prior to the GWT... which we will see that it cannot be.).  

In verse 5, "two others" appear.  Two more angels?  One on either shore of the Tigris.  "Someone" asks the one who is above the waters of the stream how long it will be until the end of these wonders?"  The answer is time, and times, and half a time.  So 3.5 years.  Not sure how far back into this narrative you go to the start of that period, but my guess is that it is from 11:36 on.  The last half of the 7, the Great Tribulation.   MSB has references of Dan 7:25, Dan 11:36-39, and Rev 12:14.  See also Rev 11:2,3 and 13:5.

2023 - Let's look at the verses:  6 And someone said to the man clothed in linen, who was above the waters of the stream, "How long shall it be till the end of these wonders?" 7 And I heard the man clothed in linen, who was above the waters of the stream; he raised his right hand and his left hand toward heaven and swore by him who lives forever that it would be for a time, times, and half a time, and that when the shattering of the power of the holy people comes to an end all these things would be finished. [Dan 12:6-7 ESV].  Several things we need to know:
1. The end of what wonders?  This large scale resurrection of dead people?  That seems like the best candidate!
2. A time, times, and half a time.  I think, and everything I've ever read concurs, that these words mean a year, two years, and half a year.  3.5 years.  So that seems to say that from the time these dead people are resurrected until they are "dealt with" let's say, will be 3 1/2 years.  SO.  The "easy" interpretation of that says that this will occur in the very middle of tgt.  But of course that makes it a third resurrection, that ties it to Ez 37, and we don't really want to do that.  Another way to look at it is to say that the GWT, commencing after the Millennial,  will require at least 3.5 years for judging all those who resurrect for that.  I guess that is a possibility.  Hmm...might even be a good way to look at it.  If that is what it is, then the GWT will be a judgment of all the lost of all time, and all the nation of Israel of all time - both saved and unsaved.  That does answer a lot of questions...but creates others.  Why would Ezekiel make such a big deal of the resurrection of Israel if it is only to final judgment?  Ez 37:22, 24-27 speak of Israel living in the land of their fathers, not just for a thousand years, but forever.  And while there, forever, God will set his sanctuary among them...Ezekiel's Temple?  So...in the new heaven and the new earth, that DO last forever, Israel will be Israel, they will have Ezekiel's temple at which to worship which means animal sacrifices forever...Odd...but my goodness it does fit the timeline after all!
3. What is the shattering of the power of the holy people that will end?  Is that the curse of blindness?  That ought to be lifted when the 144,000 start their ministry...That is about live people,  however.  These are resurrected Jews, who were perhaps "stuck" somewhere, powerless, until this resurrection.  I'm going to have to think on this, sleep on all this...because it is very new to me.  I like what all it explains.  It is a different version of end times than I have considered before, but I think this version answers more questions than it causes.  Wow.
4. Hold everything....We have too many time periods labeled 3 1/2 years.  The 3 1/2, last time I checked, was about the time of AE, from the time he made a deal with the raggedy Jews until he took away the sacrifice.  Here again we are talking about 3 1/2 years.  So we need to consider that somewhere along here we have gone back to AE's time.  OR we have to say that the 3 1/2 year period then somehow foreshadows the 3 1/2 years here.  This is the very last note I made on 2/3/23, it is IMPORTANT and needs to be addressed...but I do not have any more in me today.  It will have to wait.

2023 - This one:
9 He said, "Go your way, Daniel, for the words are shut up and sealed until the time of the end. [Dan 12:9 ESV].  Sealed as in incomprehensible until the time actually arrives, and then it will all be clear?  Like Dwight predicts...we are all going to be sooooo surprised!!!

Then there is this about the 1290 days and the 1335 days...
The 1290 days are 3 1/2 years plus 30 days.  The extra 30 might be for judging the living once Christ sets up his kingdom.  There will still be sin...but what is this judgement.  This is not the Great White Throne, which is after the Millennial.  Maybe this judges who can enter the city?
The 1335 is another 45 days.  Perhaps to set up the civil government in Jerusalem.  Must remember that it is here, during this time, that Ezekiel's Temple will be used as originally intended at Sinai.  There will be a prince, not Jesus, who makes sacrifices in this temple.  All this has to be set up, and people don't move as instantly as God.

2023 - Or...dare I suggest that these words are about AE.  The Temple was shut down somewhere around 3 years.  Depending on the precise reckoning, it could be 1290 days.  And the 1335?  Perhaps it took 45 days more to purify the temple.  1260 days from the time it was shut down until the city was retaken.  30 days to rebuild the temple vessels.  45 days to purify them.  And then the sacrifice recommenced.  I don't know.  I do not know.  This could as easily be how long things take at the end of the Millennial, to get through the GWT, set up the new Temple, select the new priests and train them, and commence the sacrifice again for all eternity.  That is not a bad interpretation either.  

Daniel is told to "go his way", to live until he dies.  He is told that he will rest then, until time to stand in "his allotted place" at the end of the days.  What a promise!

So much here...so much I didn't realize.  I think 11 has always been just too complex for me to assimilate.  I couldn't do it on my own.  But the MSB opened it up for me.  Now I know at least one "smarter person's" interpretation of that chapter, and I have some fleshing out of the history of the Seleucids and a much better understanding of the "original" abomination of desolation.

2022 - There seems to be far more to unravel in Dan 11, 12, than in all of Revelation combined.  You have to go through these two chapters, correlating events with history, until you find a divergence.  I think that divergence will be in 11:40, where it says "at the time of the end".  Note that just a little earlier we once again saw the phrase "till the indignation is accomplished", which I believe is just before t/gt begins.  The time of the end is...t/gt I think.  This phrase signals, as of today in my opinion, the 70th week.  I think 12:7 drives this home.  The time of the end may - indeed is almost certainly according to 12:7, the last 3 1/2 years.
Daniel is its own study.  A clear "guess" as to Daniel 11, 12 must be well in hand before any encompassing study of the end times can be undertaken.  That all seems quite monumental to me.  Not impossible...but I may not have enough years left to accomplish it.

2023 - After all the new things that came out of reading Daniel this seventh time through, I absolutely cannot wait until next year!!!